Ego => Head Shrinkers => Topic started by: shadylady on November 06, 2014, 05:18:49 am
Title: Transexual
Post by: shadylady on November 06, 2014, 05:18:49 am
I am aroused by the idea of becoming a women. This drives me to the desire to transition. But I only feel this urge when my libido is high. I seem to be attracted to thought of transitioning more then women & men. I have talked about this lightly in my therapy sessions. I love painted toes, dresses, and the sex appeal that women can share. Sometimes I just want to be that. I hear people use arousal as there only sort of expression and its quite common. I can't seem to shake these feeling. I feel transition is just to much to deal with. I have attempted dressing out only 3-5 times. The anxiety that follows is just not worth the effort. Any advice on coping and alleviating these feelings?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: starvingniglet on November 06, 2014, 05:20:12 am
cant help but log in just one more time to post this:
kill yourself
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: shadylady on November 06, 2014, 05:20:52 am
The majority of your life is going to be spent not sexually aroused, probably. If you're okay being male during those times, then I kinda feel you shouldn't transition. Hormones and stuff is kind of an always thing. Dunno what more to say really. Wear the girly clothes in the bedroom with open minded partners, I guess.
Haven't you been transitioning, though? I remember you had the transdermal and were scared of it.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: mashleshmash on November 06, 2014, 05:56:30 am
The majority of your life is going to be spent not sexually aroused, probably. If you're okay being male during those times, then I kinda feel you shouldn't transition. Hormones and stuff is kind of an always thing. Dunno what more to say really. Wear the girly clothes in the bedroom with open minded partners, I guess.
Haven't you been transitioning, though? I remember you had the transdermal and were scared of it.
cmon people I was expecting hate and hurtful comments!!!!! do your worst
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 06:08:50 am
*shrug*
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: mashleshmash on November 06, 2014, 06:18:42 am
Maybe on Zoklet, we don't have enough people here.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Arnox on November 06, 2014, 07:13:33 am
Didn't I permaban you for something?
Either way, advisory to everyone, OP isn't shadylady from Zoklet.
As to your transexual thing, the reason why people aren't flaming you is probably because equanimity has already conditioned us (or a lot of us at least) to accept her now. (She's brainwashed us. o.o) And it sounds like you simply have a gender swapping fetish and you aren't actually trans. You're only trans if you CONSTANTLY feel your body gender is completely mismatched with who you really are.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 07:37:26 am
Either way, advisory to everyone, OP isn't shadylady from Zoklet.
Yeah, hc45/upinsmoke account. Was with LLZ. The one spamming bastard factory links and maybe some other bad stuff. But I liked her on Zoklet. Seems pretty harmless for the time being, and with registration closed she's run out of account pretty quickly if she started to break rules I bet.
As to your transexual thing, the reason why people aren't flaming you is probably because equanimity has already conditioned us (or a lot of us at least) to accept her now. (She's brainwashed us. o.o) And it sounds like you simply have a gender swapping fetish and you aren't actually trans. You're only trans if you CONSTANTLY feel your body gender is completely mismatched with who you really are.
Yes. Absolutely everyone here has been brainwashed to love me. Just ask them :P
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Arnox on November 06, 2014, 07:42:52 am
Rather than indicating gender identity disorder this suggests a subconscious desire to go fuck yourself.
As of DSM-V, it's not gender identity disorder. Now it's simply referred to as "gender dysphoria". Much like how homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder.
Related topics: transvestism, faggotry (catching, not pitching).
This is as wrong as it is offensive. The "faggotry" bit, anyway. Being aroused at the thought of being a woman has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and there are plenty of straight men with this particular kink.
As of DSM-V, it's not gender identity disorder. Now it's simply referred to as "gender dysphoria". Much like how homosexuality is no longer considered a disorder.
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment. The money can then be spent on something more productive, like free physiotherapy back massages.
This is as wrong as it is offensive. The "faggotry" bit, anyway. Being aroused at the thought of being a woman has nothing to do with sexual orientation, and there are plenty of straight men with this particular kink.
Whatever you say, Lola.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 04:32:32 pm
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment.
Quite the opposite, really. Given time. It's becoming accepted that transgender people have a very real medical need for hormone treatments and surgeries. The move is one away from psychological disorder and toward something requiring physical change. Can't very well mess with a person's brain structure to change their gender, and even if we could would it be moral?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: fanglekai on November 06, 2014, 04:35:34 pm
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment.
Quite the opposite, really. Given time. It's becoming accepted that transgender people have a very real medical need for hormone treatments and surgeries. The move is one away from psychological disorder and toward something requiring physical change. Can't very well mess with a person's brain structure to change their gender, and even if we could would it be moral?
false. you're fucking retarded. here's why. you were born one way. that's what you are. accept it. wanting to be a woman is like being born chinese and wanting to be mexican. accept what you are and move on.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 04:39:12 pm
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment.
Quite the opposite, really. Given time. It's becoming accepted that transgender people have a very real medical need for hormone treatments and surgeries. The move is one away from psychological disorder and toward something requiring physical change. Can't very well mess with a person's brain structure to change their gender, and even if we could would it be moral?
except that's wrong saying there is no disorder at play is disingenuous at best people thinking they will be happy if their penis is cut off is harmful and hints at much deeper seated issues. As seen by the fact that suicide rates go virtually unchanged by people that claim they are depressed they are the wrong "gender". Saying the government should pay for people to mutilate their bodies instead of giving them treatment is laughable There are disorders with people whom want to be quadriplegics should we cripple them cause they feel like they're too able? People should get treatment instead of loping shit of their body. Maybe I feel like I am a dog trapped in a mans body that's totally not a disorder at all /s
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 04:42:35 pm
Something to chew on
This is your daily reminder that the theory that gender and sex are two different things, and that sex is nature while gender is nurture, was an idea put forth by a long since discredited pedophile quack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
"During his professional life, Money was respected as an expert on sexual behavior, especially for allegedly demonstrating that gender was learned rather than innate. Many years later, however, it was revealed that his most famous case was fundamentally flawed. The subject was the sex reassignment of David Reimer, in what later became known as the "John/Joan" case"
"In 2000, David and his twin brother (Brian) alleged that Dr. Money had taken numerous naked photos of the twins during their treatment and had forced them to engage in "sexual play" at age 7. In 2002, David's twin brother was found dead from an overdose of the drugs used to treat his schizophrenia. On 5 May 2004, shortly after being asked by his wife for a separation, Reimer committed suicide. Reimer's parents have stated that they believe Dr. Money's methodology was responsible for the deaths of both of their sons."
"Privately, Money was mortified by the case, colleagues said, and as a rule did not discuss it. Money's own views also developed and changed over the years."
"Money on pedophilia: If I were to see the case of a boy aged ten or eleven who's intensely erotically attracted toward a man in his twenties or thirties, if the relationship is totally mutual, and the bonding is genuinely totally mutual … then I would not call it pathological in any way"
If you support John Money's stance on transgenderism and non-binary gender theory then you also support that pedophilia is normal.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: RisiR on November 06, 2014, 04:45:20 pm
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment.
Quite the opposite, really. Given time. It's becoming accepted that transgender people have a very real medical need for hormone treatments and surgeries. The move is one away from psychological disorder and toward something requiring physical change. Can't very well mess with a person's brain structure to change their gender, and even if we could would it be moral?
Thank you for demonstrating my point. Sex is biological but gender is a social construct; putting on a skirt doesn't require hormone treatment, brain surgery or any other waste of tax payers' money.
Damn, I could really do with a free back massage right now.
Excellent news. If it's no longer a medical disorder then trannies will no longer qualify for medical treatment.
Quite the opposite, really. Given time. It's becoming accepted that transgender people have a very real medical need for hormone treatments and surgeries. The move is one away from psychological disorder and toward something requiring physical change. Can't very well mess with a person's brain structure to change their gender, and even if we could would it be moral?
false. you're fucking retarded. here's why. you were born one way. that's what you are. accept it. wanting to be a woman is like being born chinese and wanting to be mexican. accept what you are and move on.
This is your daily reminder that the theory that gender and sex are two different things, and that sex is nature while gender is nurture, was an idea put forth by a long since discredited pedophile quack.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money
"During his professional life, Money was respected as an expert on sexual behavior, especially for allegedly demonstrating that gender was learned rather than innate. Many years later, however, it was revealed that his most famous case was fundamentally flawed. The subject was the sex reassignment of David Reimer, in what later became known as the "John/Joan" case"
"In 2000, David and his twin brother (Brian) alleged that Dr. Money had taken numerous naked photos of the twins during their treatment and had forced them to engage in "sexual play" at age 7. In 2002, David's twin brother was found dead from an overdose of the drugs used to treat his schizophrenia. On 5 May 2004, shortly after being asked by his wife for a separation, Reimer committed suicide. Reimer's parents have stated that they believe Dr. Money's methodology was responsible for the deaths of both of their sons."
"Privately, Money was mortified by the case, colleagues said, and as a rule did not discuss it. Money's own views also developed and changed over the years."
"Money on pedophilia: If I were to see the case of a boy aged ten or eleven who's intensely erotically attracted toward a man in his twenties or thirties, if the relationship is totally mutual, and the bonding is genuinely totally mutual … then I would not call it pathological in any way"
If you support John Money's stance on transgenderism and non-binary gender theory then you also support that pedophilia is normal.
No one is suggesting that gender is 100% learned (IE: nurture). Well, maybe Slave is, he didn't go into much detail there. The prevailing theory is that a combination of sex hormones and other factors (such as genetic influences) act on the architecture of the brain during prenatal development. At least in the case of transsexualism. There are other theories, many involving social factors, but this is where we're at for now.
Thank you for demonstrating my point. Sex is biological but gender is a social construct; putting on a skirt doesn't require hormone treatment, brain surgery or any other waste of tax payers' money.
Damn, I could really do with a free back massage right now.
Gender is a psychosocial phenomenon straddling the concepts of gender identity and gender roles.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: RisiR on November 06, 2014, 05:33:40 pm
That's not even your cats?
*REPORTED*
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 05:35:36 pm
My cats are all older. I want kittens again and really have to stop myself from making that plunge because 3 cats is enough for one person to have I guess. There's a fine line between pet owner and crazy cat lady :(
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: RisiR on November 06, 2014, 05:39:52 pm
*Crazy cat dude with tiny boobs
Did you infract yourself for the spam?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Slave of the Beast on November 06, 2014, 05:48:50 pm
Thank you for demonstrating my point. Sex is biological but gender is a social construct; putting on a skirt doesn't require hormone treatment, brain surgery or any other waste of tax payers' money.
Damn, I could really do with a free back massage right now.
Gender is a psychosocial phenomenon straddling the concepts of gender identity and gender roles.
I don't speak SJW (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=SJW) psychobabble. Here's the definition most sane humans work by:
gender/ˈdʒɛndə/ noun
1.the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
Therefore your problem with gender can be fixed by wearing a whorish skirt and some garishly applied lip stick. Which is the warped concept of feminimity many trannies appear to have. The only surgery I would consider approving spending public money on would be castration, preferably before you've had the chance to breed.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 06:27:54 pm
Therefore your problem with gender can be fixed by wearing a whorish skirt and some garishly applied lip stick. Which is the warped concept of feminimity many trannies appear to have. The only surgery I would consider approving spending public money on would be castration, preferably before you've had the chance to breed.
You get caught up in the definitions of words a lot, I've noticed. Even after I explain I was writing with a different definition in mind you're stuck on it. Just pretend I had written gender identity as opposed to gender, okay?
Are you talking about me, specifically? Transgender is one of those umbrella terms. What I experience is called transsexualism, a category under the transgender umbrella. It's not my favorite word, transsexualism. Lots of negative connotations. For you though, it's the right word to keep in mind.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Slave of the Beast on November 06, 2014, 07:04:53 pm
My psych textbook says psychosocial. But how we choose to define gender does absolutely nothing to change reality.
It defines which particular aspect of reality you're talking about. As far as I'm concerned we're still discussing playing 'gendered' dress-up, not sexual biology.
Therefore your problem with gender can be fixed by wearing a whorish skirt and some garishly applied lip stick. Which is the warped concept of feminimity many trannies appear to have. The only surgery I would consider approving spending public money on would be castration, preferably before you've had the chance to breed.
You get caught up in the definitions of words a lot, I've noticed. Even after I explain I was writing with a different definition in mind you're stuck on it. Just pretend I had written gender identity as opposed to gender, okay?
I find defining what is being discussed to be... fairly important... in a discussion.
The alternative is spewing gibberish. It's your choice.
Are you talking about me, specifically? Transgender is one of those umbrella terms. What I experience is called transsexualism, a category under the transgender umbrella. It's not my favorite word, transsexualism. Lots of negative connotations. For you though, it's the right word to keep in mind.
You are genetically male. Everything else is a figment of your mental illness.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 07:15:03 pm
You are genetically male. Everything else is a figment of your mental illness.
this is the meat and potatoes of the argument here in that you are born with the genetic make up of a male to claim you are not in fact male denotes and mental imbalance therefore an illness in an otherwise healthy body that has developed along the way it was supposed to correctly due to genetic makeup
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 07:26:57 pm
What mental illness, exactly? How would it be treated?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Slave of the Beast on November 06, 2014, 07:30:24 pm
What mental illness, exactly? How would it be treated?
Body Dysmorphic Disorder would be a key contender probably with others related to depression and personality affecting syndromes.
Generally therapy would be a good start for most people with these issues as treating the causes of their insecurities and roots of depression would probably have a greater result then enabling them to take courses of actions that are non reversible and do nothing to treat the underlying issues of depression and self doubt commonly found in most transsexuals
What mental illness, exactly? How would it be treated?
If someone thinks they're a unicorn, you find a way of convincing them otherwise.
You do not try turning them into a unicorn.
This is a relatively common occurrence that has existed throughout history and across different cultures. And biological factors are believed to cause it, in many cases. To compare it to believing you're a unicorn is ridiculous. There is even evidence suggesting there are biological differences between the brains of transsexual individuals and those of not-transsexuals.
Real mental disorders are largely treatable with medication and psychological therapy. "Transsexual reparative therapy" is now known to be damaging to transsexuals, and often those cases result in self-hatred and suicide. What treatment could there possibly be?
Body Dysmorphic Disorder would be a key contender probably with others related to depression and personality affecting syndromes.
Generally therapy would be a good start for most people with these issues as treating the causes of their insecurities and roots of depression would probably have a greater result then enabling them to take courses of actions that are non reversible and do nothing to treat the underlying issues of depression and self doubt commonly found in most transsexuals
Therapy is a good start, and therapists can help people sort out their feelings about their gender identity. In cases of transsexualism, this generally leads to hormone therapy and possibly surgery.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 08:01:17 pm
What mental illness, exactly? How would it be treated?
If someone thinks they're a unicorn, you find a way of convincing them otherwise.
You do not try turning them into a unicorn.
This is a relatively common occurrence that has existed throughout history and across different cultures. And biological factors are believed to cause it, in many cases. To compare it to believing you're a unicorn is ridiculous. There is even evidence suggesting there are biological differences between the brains of transsexual individuals and those of not-transsexuals.
Real mental disorders are largely treatable with medication and psychological therapy. "Transsexual reparative therapy" is now known to be damaging to transsexuals, and often those cases result in self-hatred and suicide. What treatment could there possibly be?
Body Dysmorphic Disorder would be a key contender probably with others related to depression and personality affecting syndromes.
Generally therapy would be a good start for most people with these issues as treating the causes of their insecurities and roots of depression would probably have a greater result then enabling them to take courses of actions that are non reversible and do nothing to treat the underlying issues of depression and self doubt commonly found in most transsexuals
Therapy is a good start, and therapists can help people sort out their feelings about their gender identity. In cases of transsexuals, this generally leads to hormone therapy and possibly surgery.
you keep bringing up gender identity but that's a totally different issue that deserves its own thread because to get into the lunacy around that is outrageous in and of itself
Genetically you are male if your thoughts are leading you to believe you are not male you have a disorder along the lines of people with eating disorders and other forms of body Dysmorphisms you simply are not a woman and will never be a woman on a genetic or biological level and it does more harm to peoples psyches and that is shown by how most transsexuals cannot handle the mood swings brought on by hormone therapy or the issues they have with their bodies after surgery what I said earlier is still true most transsexuals who have suicidal depression before transition are not helped in any way by the transition a lot of them still commit suicide
I am sorry but if you are born with the genetic make up of a man or a woman you are a man or a woman and to claim you are not shows a level of cognitive dissonance closely connected to mental illness
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 08:22:56 pm
you keep bringing up gender identity but that's a totally different issue that deserves its own thread because to get into the lunacy around that is outrageous in and of itself
Genetically you are male if your thoughts are leading you to believe you are not male you have a disorder along the lines of people with eating disorders and other forms of body Dysmorphisms you simply are not a woman and will never be a woman on a genetic or biological level and it does more harm to peoples psyches and that is shown by how most transsexuals cannot handle the mood swings brought on by hormone therapy or the issues they have with their bodies after surgery what I said earlier is still true most transsexuals who have suicidal depression before transition are not helped in any way by the transition a lot of them still commit suicide
I am sorry but if you are born with the genetic make up of a man or a woman you are a man or a woman and to claim you are not shows a level of cognitive dissonance closely connected to mental illness
Maybe some future revelation in the study of psychology will prove you right, but based on what evidence we have now this is untrue. It's a shame that so many people believe this without even considering the evidence, as it breeds bigotry and discrimination.
It's not easy being transgendered. Even without the social stigma it would suck pretty hard.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 08:32:00 pm
you keep bringing up gender identity but that's a totally different issue that deserves its own thread because to get into the lunacy around that is outrageous in and of itself
Genetically you are male if your thoughts are leading you to believe you are not male you have a disorder along the lines of people with eating disorders and other forms of body Dysmorphisms you simply are not a woman and will never be a woman on a genetic or biological level and it does more harm to peoples psyches and that is shown by how most transsexuals cannot handle the mood swings brought on by hormone therapy or the issues they have with their bodies after surgery what I said earlier is still true most transsexuals who have suicidal depression before transition are not helped in any way by the transition a lot of them still commit suicide
I am sorry but if you are born with the genetic make up of a man or a woman you are a man or a woman and to claim you are not shows a level of cognitive dissonance closely connected to mental illness
Maybe some future revelation in the study of psychology will prove you right, but based on what evidence we have now this is untrue. It's a shame that so many people believe this without even considering the evidence, as it breeds bigotry and discrimination.
It's not easy being transgendered. Even without the social stigma it would suck pretty hard.
this is where the whole transgender argument falls apart it isn't about your feelings it is factually disingenuous to not call it a disorder the evidence now points to larger psychological issues especially related to BDD even Gender Dysmorphic disorders. The thing telling someone they are the wrong sex is brain chemistry apart from that their genetic makeup is that of what they were born with you are no more a woman than I am a black man or a Chinese person and to suggest someone can choose their genetic makeup cause they feel like it is plain flat out ignorant of biology and human physiology.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 06, 2014, 10:53:24 pm
uh. no...
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 06, 2014, 10:59:13 pm
I'm sorry you are right there are literally no differences between males and females that cannot be addressed with surgery. /s
you are biologically and physiologically not a woman you can not become a woman through hormones and COSMETIC surgery it's the equivalent of extreme dress up
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Goats on November 06, 2014, 11:09:54 pm
STOP BRINGING THE FUCKING TRANNIES.
FUCK OFF.
IT IS A FETISH.
PLEASE TELL ME, HOW GETTING BOOBS, HAVING A COCK AND BALLS, IS GOING TO MAKE YOU FEMININE OR BE TREATED LIKE A "LADY" BY A HETEROSEXUAL MALE AND NOT SOME TYPE OF FUCKUP LIKE LAVARED?
YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO GET A BONER.
GO AWAY YOU FUCKING FAGGOT/SOCIAL MISFIT.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Not An Alt on November 07, 2014, 10:05:35 am
Maybe some future revelation in the study of psychology will prove you right, but based on what evidence we have now this is untrue. It's a shame that so many people believe this without even considering the evidence, as it breeds bigotry and discrimination.
It's not easy being transgendered. Even without the social stigma it would suck pretty hard.
why? Do you think people will discriminate you more if they know it's a mental illness? Or do you have something against people with psychiatric disorders?
Real mental disorders are largely treatable with medication and psychological therapy. "Transsexual reparative therapy" is now known to be damaging to transsexuals, and often those cases result in self-hatred and suicide. What treatment could there possibly be?
Treatable? Well treatable is a very broad category. Sedating the fuck out of some poor schizophrenic slob is considered a 'treatment' as well. I worked in a psychiatric rehabilitation center and in my experience most disorders can not be healed and the things that are considered a 'treatment' are mostly heavy drug dosages to lessen the sensorial overload (well, that and it lessens the staffs work load).
The best someone with a real mental disorder (schizophrenia, borderline, etc) can hope for is to be able to learn to live with the illness. And with enough luck they may be able to get to work in the second rate labour market (e.g. sheltered/retardeded workshops or whatever the pc term for them are nowadays).
And in what way is being a transsexual/transwhatever different to a mental illness? With either of them the person who has it, has to learn to live with it.
PLEASE TELL ME, HOW GETTING BOOBS, HAVING A COCK AND BALLS, IS GOING TO MAKE YOU FEMININE OR BE TREATED LIKE A "LADY" BY A HETEROSEXUAL MALE AND NOT SOME TYPE OF FUCKUP LIKE LAVARED?
YOU ARE JUST TRYING TO GET A BONER.
GO AWAY YOU FUCKING FAGGOT/SOCIAL MISFIT.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Not An Alt on November 07, 2014, 10:07:40 am
Anyway... why is the zoklet/totse userbase so massivly gay anyways?
This is a site that has a legacy of a userbase consisting of mostly faggots, trannies, traps and hardcore faggots on hormon therapy. If I'm remembering correctly, at least 20 members of zoklet were self-admitted faggots.
Zek, Lanny, Ashley, Mizzled, silverfuck, shadylady, v0x, coolguy420,... and that are only the members I remember...
I'm not to sure about snoopy, his wife is bald so who knows and in his pic he seems really really gay.
oh and zok and fish were probably gay too, considering they both have aids and and how zok really liked modding faggots (lanny, v0x, shadylady)
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 07, 2014, 04:58:50 pm
why? Do you think people will discriminate you more if they know it's a mental illness? Or do you have something against people with psychiatric disorders?
Fewer people would discriminate if they knew that transsexualism was not a psychiatric disorder. And no, I have no problem with people who have psychiatric disorders. There are some in my family. We're making a lot of progress in the way of combating discrimination of those with psychiatric disorders.
The problem is that if homosexuality or transsexualism are considered mental disorders, it's that much easier to dismiss their very real feelings and experiences. Like, "Oh whatever, you're just crazy. There's no way you're a man because you have a vagina."
^Which trivializes the matter, and misses the point entirely. In many cases a transsexual person is able to take hormones and have surgeries, and then be really okay with who they are. The live normal, functional lives as their preferred gender and it's not even a big deal. Why would we label someone like that as being mentally ill?
Treatable? Well treatable is a very broad category. Sedating the fuck out of some poor schizophrenic slob is considered a 'treatment' as well. I worked in a psychiatric rehabilitation center and in my experience most disorders can not be healed and the things that are considered a 'treatment' are mostly heavy drug dosages to lessen the sensorial overload (well, that and it lessens the staffs work load).
The best someone with a real mental disorder (schizophrenia, borderline, etc) can hope for is to be able to learn to live with the illness. And with enough luck they may be able to get to work in the second rate labour market (e.g. sheltered/retardeded workshops or whatever the pc term for them are nowadays).
And in what way is being a transsexual/transwhatever different to a mental illness? With either of them the person who has it, has to learn to live with it.
The difference between transsexualism and mental illness is that transsexualism is not something negative that needs curing. With enough money for hormones and surgeries, and the strength to endure social discrimination, most transsexuals can live great lives. Not in spite of their transsexualism, but in harmony with it. The best "fix" is simply to go along with it and do what comes naturally. It's a long and arduous journey getting there, largely for monetary and social reasons.
But once you've made it, it's so much easier to be at peace.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: starvingniglet on November 07, 2014, 05:01:53 pm
when will you silly teletubby leftists learn that discrimination and competition are the main drivers of our civilization, they are what make us human, and they are actually benificient for all types of life forms?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 07, 2014, 05:05:40 pm
Discerning discrimination and respectful competition are wonderful things.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 07, 2014, 05:07:11 pm
homosexuality is not comparable to transsexualism and it's honestly pretty shitty of you to compare the 2 there are major differences to being attracted to someone and wanting to under go many COSMETIC surgeries with the intent of changing physical appearance to meet an disillusioned ideal of what is right for someones body
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: starvingniglet on November 07, 2014, 05:10:18 pm
Discerning discrimination and respectful competition are wonderful things.
you are a bright cookie, you should look into game theory and then tell me about 'respectful competition'. I hate to distill a lengthy diatribe into a one-sentence aphorisim, but here goes: 'Nice guys finish last'.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 07, 2014, 05:13:17 pm
homosexuality is not comparable to transsexualism and it's honestly pretty shitty of you to compare the 2 there are major differences to being attracted to someone and wanting to under go many COSMETIC surgeries with the intent of changing physical appearance to meet an disillusioned ideal of what is right for someones body
Was speaking strictly about social stigma there, in which case they are comparable, but you're right. Two completely different things that have little to do with one another.
you are a bright cookie, you should look into game theory and then tell me about 'respectful competition'. I hate to distill a lengthy diatribe into a one-sentence aphorisim, but here goes: 'Nice guys finish last'.
Bright cookies are the best cookies :)
Wise guys finish when they finish, and find ways to enjoy the journey as it lasts.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: starvingniglet on November 07, 2014, 05:17:09 pm
It brought up a lot of interesting topics, but the author didn't at all make a case against transsexualism. Made quite a few assumptions, like about how widespread this regret is and for what reasons transgendered people have much higher rates of suicide. I've never met a trans person myself, but have heard of one from 420chan's /cd/ "detransitioning".
What I dislike about many activists on both sides is that they are so uncompromising and dishonest. It's true that people wanting to speak openly about their regrets concerning their transition are ostracized and vilified by the online trans communities. And the fact that some people do have these regrets is not a case against transsexualism on the whole (which is a fallacy). Rather, it suggests that this is not one problem that we can fix with one cookie cutter solution, but is instead a very broad number of issues that affect individuals in a variety of ways.
For either side to say, "I am right, and you are wrong," misses the point entirely, and is a pretty active denial of the complexities of reality and the varied human experience. Sometimes I find myself doing that though, especially when dealing with difficult people and the insistence that transsexuals are all mentally disturbed and not actually trans. It's rough when you're fighting for acceptance in society, and the people vehemently disagreeing with you seek out the people for whom transition was not the answer in order to exploit their stories as an attack on the validity who you are.
It's not secret why certain trans activists don't like those that decide they aren't trans. And it's no secret why the anti-trans crowd seeks out those detransitioners. Really it's all very sad. The only sensible way to approach any of this is with compassion and understanding. After all, we're each fighting pointless and harmful battles of our own.
It's only when we're honest with ourselves and everyone else, including the difficult people, that any progress can be made.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Slave of the Beast on November 11, 2014, 04:55:51 pm
Peace and acceptance. Civil rights. That sorta thing.
So why weren't you honest about who you were until recently?
You do have civil rights. Don't you?
How can you possibly believe that one day, everyone will be at peace and accept everyone else? How is that possible?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 11, 2014, 06:03:39 pm
What, you think I'm here on the internet fighting for civil rights? Now that is delusion.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 11, 2014, 06:22:32 pm
Actually that article brings up the most important point these surgeries and treatments are purely cosmetic this is not a treatment to a problem of gender confusion it is genital mutilation without well reasoned treatment
the fact of the matter is genetically you are a male you will always be a male you cannot alter your genetics and to have surgery performed on a healthy body does more harm then good physiologically and mentally as seen in the little change in self destructive thoughts and behaviors seen widely in the trans community
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 11, 2014, 06:45:55 pm
Actually that article brings up the most important point these surgeries and treatments are purely cosmetic this is not a treatment to a problem of gender confusion it is genital mutilation without well reasoned treatment
the fact of the matter is genetically you are a male you will always be a male you cannot alter your genetics and to have surgery performed on a healthy body does more harm then good physiologically and mentally as seen in the little change in self destructive thoughts and behaviors seen widely in the trans community
You're just making this stuff up as you go along. Please show me documentation of this "widely seen change".
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: mashleshmash on November 11, 2014, 06:49:07 pm
At least Zek isn't a hopeless heroin addicted tranny. 8)
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 11, 2014, 06:51:26 pm
Actually that article brings up the most important point these surgeries and treatments are purely cosmetic this is not a treatment to a problem of gender confusion it is genital mutilation without well reasoned treatment
the fact of the matter is genetically you are a male you will always be a male you cannot alter your genetics and to have surgery performed on a healthy body does more harm then good physiologically and mentally as seen in the little change in self destructive thoughts and behaviors seen widely in the trans community
You're just making this stuff up as you go along. Please show me documentation of this "widely seen change".
There is LITTLE CHANGE is what I said. I'm not making anything up Trans people commonly suffer from depression and suicide and transitions have little effect on curing that. Depression and suicide maintains the same rates if not increased suicides after transitions due to the fact that most feel they do not "fit" in society and are not satisfied by the transition.
the study here > http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21364939 was cited in the article
transitions are not helping people and in some cases are exacerbating the issues at play
your bias is showing
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Obbe on November 11, 2014, 07:20:37 pm
What, you think I'm here on the internet fighting for civil rights? Now that is delusion.
You preach about "making progress"and civil rights, and then say you're not preaching about progress and civil rights? So what are you doing here? If we should all be honest, why did you lie to all of us?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 11, 2014, 07:29:22 pm
Ah that makes more sense. Little change. My bad. You're still making huge assumptions here though. Even if we do know that there is little change in depression and suicide rates between people before and after transition, the reasons for suicide and depression are not known. The common argument is that much of the reason transsexuals kill themselves is because of the discrimination they face, which obviously exists before, during and after transition.
That's not to say the body issues don't contribute, because they totally do in many cases. But what else can even be done to treat this? Anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers? I can tell you firsthand that these do not work in treating gender dysphoria. Many people do find some peace with their bodies through the means of hormones and surgery. It's awful that some people go through these things only to regret it afterward, but we cannot assume this means surgery and hormone treatments are bad in all cases.
You preach about "making progress"and civil rights, and then say you're not preaching about progress and civil rights? So what are you doing here? If we should all be honest, why did you lie to all of us?
I'm here to chat with pals, entertain myself, learn new things, and make friends.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 11, 2014, 07:40:51 pm
Ah that makes more sense. Little change. My bad. You're still making huge assumptions here though. Even if we do know that there is little change in depression and suicide rates between people before and after transition, the reasons for suicide and depression are not known. The common argument is that much of the reason transsexuals kill themselves is because of the discrimination they face, which obviously exists before, during and after transition.
That's not to say the body issues don't contribute, because they totally do in many cases. But what else can even be done to treat this? Anti-psychotics and mood stabilizers? I can tell you firsthand that these do not work in treating gender dysphoria. Many people do find some peace with their bodies through the means of hormones and surgery. It's awful that some people go through these things only to regret it afterward, but we cannot assume this means surgery and hormone treatments are bad in all cases.
You preach about "making progress"and civil rights, and then say you're not preaching about progress and civil rights? So what are you doing here? If we should all be honest, why did you lie to all of us?
I'm here to chat with pals, entertain myself, learn new things, and make friends.
That in and of itself is anecdotal evidence and not backed up by fact or studies
surgeries do cause harm to the human body a male physiology is not equipped for the hormones or the difference in genitalia this is an indisputable fact this in and of itself is a mutilation of healthy organs to facilitate a facade of changing genealogy this is not a treatment to symptoms this is an acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder in the same vain as not trying to treat schizoid disorders and allowing people to have multiple personalities or other delusions unchecked
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 12, 2014, 04:20:11 am
Sorry Obbe, after I posted that was like, "Wait that's not even part of what he was asking about..."
You preach about "making progress"and civil rights, and then say you're not preaching about progress and civil rights? So what are you doing here? If we should all be honest, why did you lie to all of us?
I'm here expressing my thoughts and opinions, not pushing my transsexual religion. If I seem preachy it's probably because this stuff hits kinda close to home and I have very strong feelings on the subject. Really not trying to demand that anyone believe what I do. Just presenting those beliefs for everyone else to inspect. Most people probably don't think about this stuff very often.
I lied to you 'cause it gets old carrying this identity around with me, even on the internet. Like transsexualism is this thing that simply must pervade throughout every aspect of my life. Can't I just be a girl for a little while, on the internet? When I have to be a trans girl lame jokes and pathetic harassment is a daily occurrence.
That in and of itself is anecdotal evidence and not backed up by fact or studies
surgeries do cause harm to the human body a male physiology is not equipped for the hormones or the difference in genitalia this is an indisputable fact this in and of itself is a mutilation of healthy organs to facilitate a facade of changing genealogy this is not a treatment to symptoms this is an acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder in the same vain as not trying to treat schizoid disorders and allowing people to have multiple personalities or other delusions unchecked
You're not really saying anything. Surgeries cause physical harm, okay. The surgeries are performed to "facilitate a facade of changing genealogy" which is an "acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder"? Where are you getting this stuff?
The APA is behind me, so what evidence do you have of this being a facade resulting from mental disorder?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: starvingniglet on November 12, 2014, 04:34:45 am
You're not really saying anything. Surgeries cause physical harm, okay. The surgeries are performed to "facilitate a facade of changing genealogy" which is an "acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder"? Where are you getting this stuff?
The APA is behind me, so what evidence do you have of this being a facade resulting from mental disorder?
I'm sorry my vocabulary is confusing you however the research is not "behind you" there is a lot of debate and conflicting reasoning about treatment, body dysmorphia ( http://www.adaa.org/understanding-anxiety/related-illnesses/other-related-conditions/body-dysmorphic-disorder-bdd ) is a very real disorder note the word disorder that you apparently suffer from there is a debate to be had about the effectiveness of treating it as the Gender Dysphoria hence why the situation has been and is still being debated in terms of treatments and practical diagnosis
The facade would be thinking you are a woman you empirically are not cannot and will not EVER be a female you are genetically male and your disorder is telling you to cosmetically alter yourself to meet perceived standards of being a female. This is what I mean by acquiescence to your disorder, transitioning is not a treatment but the execution of an impulse to become something you are not genetically based purely on an unwell mind believing that you can become female through harmful treatments.
going back to slaves example if someone fully believes with every fiber of their being that they are a unicorn that is not treated by surgically giving them a horn and pills to grow a luscious coat the mind is unwell and out of sync biologically with the rest of the body and would be treated as such
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: fanglekai on November 12, 2014, 04:59:32 am
You preach about "making progress"and civil rights, and then say you're not preaching about progress and civil rights? So what are you doing here? If we should all be honest, why did you lie to all of us?
I'm here expressing my thoughts and opinions, not pushing my transsexual religion. If I seem preachy it's probably because this stuff hits kinda close to home and I have very strong feelings on the subject. Really not trying to demand that anyone believe what I do. Just presenting those beliefs for everyone else to inspect. Most people probably don't think about this stuff very often.
I lied to you 'cause it gets old carrying this identity around with me, even on the internet. Like transsexualism is this thing that simply must pervade throughout every aspect of my life. Can't I just be a girl for a little while, on the internet? When I have to be a trans girl lame jokes and pathetic harassment is a daily occurrence.
That in and of itself is anecdotal evidence and not backed up by fact or studies
surgeries do cause harm to the human body a male physiology is not equipped for the hormones or the difference in genitalia this is an indisputable fact this in and of itself is a mutilation of healthy organs to facilitate a facade of changing genealogy this is not a treatment to symptoms this is an acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder in the same vain as not trying to treat schizoid disorders and allowing people to have multiple personalities or other delusions unchecked
You're not really saying anything. Surgeries cause physical harm, okay. The surgeries are performed to "facilitate a facade of changing genealogy" which is an "acquiescence to demands of a mind with a disorder"? Where are you getting this stuff?
The APA is behind me, so what evidence do you have of this being a facade resulting from mental disorder?
it's not a religion herp derp
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 12, 2014, 05:20:27 am
What exactly does BDD have to do with gender dysphoria? They're distinctly different things. We're just going in circles now anyway.
Heading in a different direction, should people not be allowed to take hormones and undergo surgeries if they want them? Because people really do want these things, and even if they were outlawed they would be performed out of country. What about muh freedoms and whatever? I feel so much less anxiety being on the hormones.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: fanglekai on November 12, 2014, 05:30:13 am
What exactly does BDD have to do with gender dysphoria? They're distinctly different things. We're just going in circles now anyway.
Heading in a different direction, should people not be allowed to take hormones and undergo surgeries if they want them? Because people really do want these things, and even if they were outlawed they would be performed out of country. What about muh freedoms and whatever? I feel so much less anxiety being on the hormones.
Should people be allowed to fuck kids if they want? Should people be allowed to grow, harvest, use and sell marijuana? Should people be allowed to grow coca leaves, harvest them, produce cocaine and sell it? Should people be allowed to grow poppies, harvest them, produce heroine and sell it?
Should people be allowed to raise animals and butcher them any way they see fit and then sell the meat?
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 12, 2014, 05:47:54 am
What exactly does BDD have to do with gender dysphoria? They're distinctly different things. We're just going in circles now anyway.
Heading in a different direction, should people not be allowed to take hormones and undergo surgeries if they want them? Because people really do want these things, and even if they were outlawed they would be performed out of country. What about muh freedoms and whatever? I feel so much less anxiety being on the hormones.
some people feel better mutilating themselves what's your point? just because it makes you "feel good" doesn't mean there isn't actual disorders that require treatment at play. People can get all the self harming surgeries that they want but the cost of such surgeries and the repercussions of that are on them no one else treatment is the option that should be supported not the indulgences in token feel good nonsense that becomes a drain on health care and society for cosmetic issues arising from defects in brain chemistry
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 12, 2014, 03:34:43 pm
Should people be allowed to fuck kids if they want? Should people be allowed to grow, harvest, use and sell marijuana? Should people be allowed to grow coca leaves, harvest them, produce cocaine and sell it? Should people be allowed to grow poppies, harvest them, produce heroine and sell it?
Should people be allowed to raise animals and butcher them any way they see fit and then sell the meat?
All of those things involve other people. What we're talking about is medical autonomy and the right to self-determination. A more apt comparison would be like when Spectre brought up body integrity identity disorder, which was one the most interesting comparisons I've ever seen made. One of the common theories as to why people feel this way about their bodies is that, as a result of x factors (hormones, genetic stuff, etc.) influencing the prenatal brain, the body map that exists in their brains is that of the opposite sex.
And from the BIID wiki page: "The cause of BIID is unknown. One theory states that the cause of BIID is a neurological failing of the brain's inner body mapping function (located in the right parietal lobe). According to this theory, the brain mapping does not incorporate the affected limb in its understanding of the body's physical form."
some people feel better mutilating themselves what's your point? just because it makes you "feel good" doesn't mean there isn't actual disorders that require treatment at play. People can get all the self harming surgeries that they want but the cost of such surgeries and the repercussions of that are on them no one else treatment is the option that should be supported not the indulgences in token feel good nonsense that becomes a drain on health care and society for cosmetic issues arising from defects in brain chemistry
Guess what I'm saying is, what harm is this really doing? In the cases of people that don't regret their decisions. And then when taking into account those cases, should those who come to regret what they've had done, and future "regretters", be reason to deny everyone these surgeries? Keeping in mind we don't have solid statistics (happy:regret ratio) to work with.
Could be compared to other surgeries, if we must. Kinda hate making this comparison, but a lot of women regret their decision to have breast augmentation surgery, so should this procedure not be offered to anyone? Could even make the ridiculous assertation that anyone wanting breast augmentation is mentally ill and should just learn to accept their bodies as God intended.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 12, 2014, 04:08:47 pm
Guess what I'm saying is, what harm is this really doing? In the cases of people that don't regret their decisions. And then when taking into account those cases, should those who come to regret what they've had done, and future "regretters", be reason to deny everyone these surgeries? Keeping in mind we don't have solid statistics (happy:regret ratio) to work with.
Could be compared to other surgeries, if we must. Kinda hate making this comparison, but a lot of women regret their decision to have breast augmentation surgery, so should this procedure not be offered to anyone? Could even make the ridiculous assertation that anyone wanting breast augmentation is mentally ill and should just learn to accept their bodies as God intended.
You clearly do not know what BDD is because wanting breast augmentation for purely cosmetic reason falls exactly under that and the point I have made multiple time that you have ignored is not that people should be legally disallowed to mutilate their bodies, but that surgery for cosmetic reasons is not something that should be burdened by the health care system as a "treatment" when it is not. You have the freedom to do that if you so choose you however do not have the freedom to demand that it is accepted as a treatment or that you be perceived as a woman when you objectively are not and the only perception that you are is from a mind faced with a disorder, Just as schizoid people cannot demand to be treated as 2 people because their mind tells them they are it's pandering to delusion.
As pointed out by your example breast augmentation is an elective process done for cosmetic body image reasons and not done to help cure or treat any underlying mental health issues. If some woman wants bigger tits but can't afford it that is no one else's responsibility to provide that for them the same can be said of transitions.
also great job using wiki as a source
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 13, 2014, 01:23:21 am
You clearly do not know what BDD is because wanting breast augmentation for purely cosmetic reason falls exactly under that and the point I have made multiple time that you have ignored is not that people should be legally disallowed to mutilate their bodies, but that surgery for cosmetic reasons is not something that should be burdened by the health care system as a "treatment" when it is not. You have the freedom to do that if you so choose you however do not have the freedom to demand that it is accepted as a treatment or that you be perceived as a woman when you objectively are not and the only perception that you are is from a mind faced with a disorder, Just as schizoid people cannot demand to be treated as 2 people because their mind tells them they are it's pandering to delusion.
As pointed out by your example breast augmentation is an elective process done for cosmetic body image reasons and not done to help cure or treat any underlying mental health issues. If some woman wants bigger tits but can't afford it that is no one else's responsibility to provide that for them the same can be said of transitions.
also great job using wiki as a source
Yeah there were a few reasons I didn't like the implant comparison. We should decide what we're discussing though. If you want to talk health care systems that's cool with me. Takes us to the same place anyway.
So I dunno where you live, but here in the US these surgical procedures are not in any way covered by the government, and are almost never covered by private insurance plans. Usually they are specifically excluded. What they do cover is visits with therapists, psychiatrists and endocrinologists, and usually the medications themselves. That's to be expected though, unless you want more government oversight in these things in order to bar people from seeing specialists for certain things. Seems like a bad idea though, and trans folk seeing an endo twice a year isn't a huge drain on taxpayers or insurance companies or whatever. Estrogen is easy to come by and dirt cheap.
Surgeries. Decidedly not covered most of the time here, but hopefully will be someday. Why would they be covered? They would need to be deemed "medically necessary". Why would they be considered medically necessary? Because this isn't mental illness, and many people could not live without it. It's likely that quite a few people would commit suicide if it turned out they wouldn't be able to undergo this operation. And there are hoops to jump through to try to ensure they won't regret the decision.
Signatures from 2 mental health professionals, one being a PhD. 12 months prior psychological therapy/evaluation, 12 months of being on hormones, 12 months of living as the preferred gender.
Anyway, we're back to the whole mental illness vs. real thing discussion. Most modern psychologists, including the APA, are with me. Nothing's set in stone though, and we really don't know the cause of transsexualism. There are some solid theories backed by biological evidence, but we're in the beginning stages of exploring this vastly complex topic. To be absolutely and staunchly sure one way or another is kind of jumping the gun a little. Some people regret the surgery, and some feel as though it saved their lives.
So idk. It's fine if you don't think this is a "medical necessity" and would prefer it not be covered by insurance companies and the like. To me that seems kind of petty, especially considering that with so few trans people around it wouldn't really raise costs very much. Like what's it to you if you're helping to pay for these surgeries? They're helping you cover your costs, and people insistent on living unhealthy lifestyles are the real expenses here. To pick and choose the benefits you're comfortable with other people having is lame. You don't know what this experience is like, and you probably only see it as portrayed in the media and on the internet with people like me. Deciding from so far away that their medical issues shouldn't be covered is... guess I'm just repeating myself. It's especially sad when the medical professionals who study these things push for the costs to be covered and are met with ignorant backlash.
What's wrong with wiki? We're having a friendly discussion on a messageboard, this isn't an academic paper. And that link was actually in support of an argument you made, I just thought it was interesting.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: -SpectraL on November 13, 2014, 01:32:56 am
I tried wearing a bow tie once. Took one look in the mirror, ripped it off and threw it away.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: mizled on November 13, 2014, 01:38:23 am
You clearly do not know what BDD is because wanting breast augmentation for purely cosmetic reason falls exactly under that and the point I have made multiple time that you have ignored is not that people should be legally disallowed to mutilate their bodies, but that surgery for cosmetic reasons is not something that should be burdened by the health care system as a "treatment" when it is not. You have the freedom to do that if you so choose you however do not have the freedom to demand that it is accepted as a treatment or that you be perceived as a woman when you objectively are not and the only perception that you are is from a mind faced with a disorder, Just as schizoid people cannot demand to be treated as 2 people because their mind tells them they are it's pandering to delusion.
As pointed out by your example breast augmentation is an elective process done for cosmetic body image reasons and not done to help cure or treat any underlying mental health issues. If some woman wants bigger tits but can't afford it that is no one else's responsibility to provide that for them the same can be said of transitions.
also great job using wiki as a source
Yeah there were a few reasons I didn't like the implant comparison. We should decide what we're discussing though. If you want to talk health care systems that's cool with me. Takes us to the same place anyway.
So I dunno where you live, but here in the US these surgical procedures are not in any way covered by the government, and are almost never covered by private insurance plans. Usually they are specifically excluded. What they do cover is visits with therapists, psychiatrists and endocrinologists, and usually the medications themselves. That's to be expected though, unless you want more government oversight in these things in order to bar people from seeing specialists for certain things. Seems like a bad idea though, and trans folk seeing an endo twice a year isn't a huge drain on taxpayers or insurance companies or whatever. Estrogen is easy to come by and dirt cheap.
Surgeries. Decidedly not covered most of the time here, but hopefully will be someday. Why would they be covered? They would need to be deemed "medically necessary". Why would they be considered medically necessary? Because this isn't mental illness, and many people could not live without it. It's likely that quite a few people would commit suicide if it turned out they wouldn't be able to undergo this operation. And there are hoops to jump through to try to ensure they won't regret the decision.
Signatures from 2 mental health professionals, one being a PhD. 12 months prior psychological therapy/evaluation, 12 months of being on hormones, 12 months of living as the preferred gender.
Anyway, we're back to the whole mental illness vs. real thing discussion. Most modern psychologists, including the APA, are with me. Nothing's set in stone though, and we really don't know the cause of transsexualism. There are some solid theories backed by biological evidence, but we're in the beginning stages of exploring this vastly complex topic. To be absolutely and staunchly sure one way or another is kind of jumping the gun a little. Some people regret the surgery, and some feel as though it saved their lives.
So idk. It's fine if you don't think this is a "medical necessity" and would prefer it not be covered by insurance companies and the like. To me that seems kind of petty, especially considering that with so few trans people around it wouldn't really raise costs very much. Like what's it to you if you're helping to pay for these surgeries? They're helping you cover your costs, and people insistent on living unhealthy lifestyles are the real expenses here. To pick and choose the benefits you're comfortable with other people having is lame. You don't know what this experience is like, and you probably only see it as portrayed in the media and on the internet with people like me. Deciding from so far away that their medical issues shouldn't be covered is... guess I'm just repeating myself. It's especially sad when the medical professionals who study these things push for the costs to be covered and are met with ignorant backlash.
What's wrong with wiki? We're having a friendly discussion on a messageboard, this isn't an academic paper. And that link was actually in support of an argument you made, I just thought it was interesting.
There's no physiological need for transition it's mental = no coverage for surgeries the same way there isn't coverage for boob and nose jobs
if you want a cosmetic surgery you pay for a cosmetic surgery if you want actual treatment and medications to cope with the disorder that should be covered as mental health
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 13, 2014, 02:04:36 am
Medical necessity, not physiological necessity. I mean that's their verbiage, in my experience.
What treatments and medications would help people cope with this? Could zombify them with hardcore drugs, but why would you? They can lead full lives without that junk, so long's they get the HRT and surgeries they need.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 13, 2014, 02:06:04 am
Medical necessity, not physiological necessity. I mean that's their verbiage, in my experience.
What treatments and medications would help people cope with this? Could zombify them with hardcore drugs, but why would you? They can lead full lives without that junk, so long's they get the HRT and surgeries they need.
there is not a medical need they body will continue to function perfectly healthy perhaps even more healthy than a body on HRT and surgeries
there are a lot of people that express improvements simply through counseling there isn't a 100% perfect treatment for any mental health illness at all
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 13, 2014, 02:30:55 am
I'm kinda bored of this now.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 13, 2014, 02:35:18 am
Oh fo' sho'. My experiences and feelings can't hold up in the face of superior reasoning; clearly I'm just crazy. Gonna stop taking my estrogen and spiro immediately, and get hair implants so I can grow a beard again. Then will come chemical lobotomy and breast reduction surgery, which of course isn't a medical necessity and won't be covered by my insurance.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Spectre on November 13, 2014, 03:00:30 am
breast reduction surgery, which of course isn't a medical necessity and won't be covered by my insurance.
just as the people that permanently scar their ear lobes with gauges and people who under go plastic surgeries end up having to pay for their own treatments should they reverse a decision they made purely for cosmetic reason causing harm to their healthy physical being
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: Obbe on November 13, 2014, 03:11:57 am
Oh fo' sho'. My experiences and feelings can't hold up in the face of superior reasoning; clearly I'm just crazy. Gonna stop taking my estrogen and spiro immediately, and get hair implants so I can grow a beard again. Then will come chemical lobotomy and breast reduction surgery, which of course isn't a medical necessity and won't be covered by my insurance.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: equanimity on November 13, 2014, 03:45:41 am
Wait no:
(http://i.imgur.com/oLg6P6V.gif)
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: fanglekai on November 13, 2014, 04:41:01 am
Oh fo' sho'. My experiences and feelings can't hold up in the face of superior reasoning; clearly I'm just crazy. Gonna stop taking my estrogen and spiro immediately, and get hair implants so I can grow a beard again. Then will come chemical lobotomy and breast reduction surgery, which of course isn't a medical necessity and won't be covered by my insurance.
go get a job and pay for shit on your own dime.
Title: Re: Transexual
Post by: RisiR on November 13, 2014, 02:14:51 pm
Another good topic.
Zek is really doing a great job as mod and representative of the tranny sub(human)-culture. :tup: