Consciousness

[Umbrella Corp]

Feeling philosophical tonight.  One of my favorite topics is the mystery of consciousness.

It has been proven scientifically that our observations actually alter the way sub atomic particles behave.  This is mind blowing to me because it means that before life existed, matter acted differently than it does today.  Which in my mind means reality doesn't really exist.  It's a fabrication of our consciousness in order to make sense of our existence.

It irks me how we are bound by our preconceived notions.  I believe anything can be possible but only if you absolutely believe it to be true.  However due to how we are raised n the beliefs that are instilled upon us, we have to live in the reality that we've created.  Science itself is detrimental to true enlightenment because the more we "discover" about the universe, the more we are bound by those discoveries.

Consciousness is the most mysterious thing that exists, and I doubt we ever fully grasp what it is.  The best guess I can come up with is we, life, are the result of the universe becoming self aware, or at least trying to find a way to figure itself out. 

[Obbe]

Feeling philosophical tonight.  One of my favorite topics is the mystery of consciousness.

It has been proven scientifically that our observations actually alter the way sub atomic particles behave.  This is mind blowing to me because it means that before life existed, matter acted differently than it does today.  Which in my mind means reality doesn't really exist.  It's a fabrication of our consciousness in order to make sense of our existence.

It irks me how we are bound by our preconceived notions.  I believe anything can be possible but only if you absolutely believe it to be true.  However due to how we are raised n the beliefs that are instilled upon us, we have to live in the reality that we've created.  Science itself is detrimental to true enlightenment because the more we "discover" about the universe, the more we are bound by those discoveries.

Consciousness is the most mysterious thing that exists, and I doubt we ever fully grasp what it is.  The best guess I can come up with is we, life, are the result of the universe becoming self aware, or at least trying to find a way to figure itself out.

If consciousness is the result of the universe becoming self aware, how can reality be a fabrication of consciousness?

[starvingniglet]

It has been proven scientifically that our observations actually alter the way sub atomic particles behave.

I really don't know much about physics, and I am terrible at math, but this statement bothers me.  What if our observations are not altering the 'behavior' of sub-atomic particles, but instead it is some unknown artifact of the physical processes we use to 'observe' these 'particles'?

Jesus, how do I even type this and make sense....Like, at the micro scales that these observations take place, maybe there is some sort of effect similar to the casimir effect that we just haven't pinpointed yet?

[RisiR]

I'll just drop this here. Too high for words.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect

[starvingniglet]

I'll just drop this here. Too high for words.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Zeno_effect

??  you typing about this?

"Decoherence does not generate actual wave function collapse. It only provides an explanation for the observation of wave function collapse, as the quantum nature of the system "leaks" into the environment. That is, components of the wavefunction are decoupled from a coherent system, and acquire phases from their immediate surroundings."

It would also be interesting to look into the actual physical processes of 'vision' itself, the structure of eyes and how light is processed in our brains, to get a complete picture of exactly what is going on.

edit - the 'measurement problem' is relevant too...in any case, I take issue with the statement that "It has been proven scientifically that our observations actually alter the way sub atomic particles behave"

[RisiR]

1) Partly.

2) Indeed.

[starvingniglet]

1) Partly.

2) Indeed.

its basically saying that, if you measure something over short enough time intervals, not only will the results make the 'object' appear to behave like the arrow in zeno's paradox, the 'object' will actually begin to behave like the arrow, and with enough measurements over a short enough interval, the object can be 'frozen' in 'place'? 

[RisiR]

Yea.

[starvingniglet]

Lets say one is observing a contact lens floating in a glass bowl full of water.  Someone sneaks up behind the observer and, using a clear glass swizzle stick, pins the contact lens to the bottom of the bowl.  Was it the act of observing that made the contact lens 'freeze in place', or was it some other phenomenon that we could not observe?

[RisiR]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

[Obbe]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

What are your thoughts on the OP?  What are your thoughts on consciousness?

[RisiR]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

What are your thoughts on the OP?  What are your thoughts on consciousness?

Please excuse me for not answering these questions with paragraphs of profound knowledge but I came to the point where I stopped trying to grasp those things let alone express them... in a foreign language on top of that.

I think the most honest answer is, 'I don't know'.

[Obbe]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

What are your thoughts on the OP?  What are your thoughts on consciousness?

Please excuse me for not answering these questions with paragraphs of profound knowledge but I came to the point where I stopped trying to grasp those things let alone express them... in a foreign language on top of that.

I think the most honest answer is, 'I don't know'.

There's nothing wrong with that.  I don't believe anyone really knows.  Although I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking about the sort of stuff mentioned in the OP.

[starvingniglet]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

What are your thoughts on the OP?  What are your thoughts on consciousness?

Please excuse me for not answering these questions with paragraphs of profound knowledge but I came to the point where I stopped trying to grasp those things let alone express them... in a foreign language on top of that.

I think the most honest answer is, 'I don't know'.

I think this is the first thread ever where RisiR is actually 'speechless'

[RisiR]

I don't think the theory is applicable like that.

What are your thoughts on the OP?  What are your thoughts on consciousness?

Please excuse me for not answering these questions with paragraphs of profound knowledge but I came to the point where I stopped trying to grasp those things let alone express them... in a foreign language on top of that.

I think the most honest answer is, 'I don't know'.

I think this is the first thread ever where RisiR is actually 'speechless'

Haha, maybe in a positive way but I have been speechless in a negative way many times before, lol.