Society => Weapons & Combat => Topic started by: ak907 on September 21, 2014, 05:54:17 pm
Title: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: ak907 on September 21, 2014, 05:54:17 pm
Read this a while ago and found it very informative. Looks like they just updated it w pictures. http://m.wikihow.com/Clear-a-Building-with-a-Firearm (http://m.wikihow.com/Clear-a-Building-with-a-Firearm)
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: bling bling on September 27, 2014, 12:03:13 pm
go in, pew pew pew, gommom sence common sednse :DDDDDD
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Arnox on September 27, 2014, 12:06:06 pm
Funnily enough, some strategies in there are also great to know when playing a lot of FPS games.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 01:39:35 pm
Why would this ever be useful information?
Y'all watch too many action films lol.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 01:43:10 pm
Yeah, because in real life, no one ever needs to defend themselves or their property with armed force.
No amount of property is worth killing someone over. And I kinda feel like the psychological damage you do to yourself by living in a constant state of fear of being raped or murdered in the night is going to make a person worse off. Statistically speaking, in a country like USA your chances of being murdered are very low. And most rape cases would not have been prevented by keeping guns in the home or even on yourself because it's not the "violent stranger" that usually does these things.
Keeping yourself prepared to murder someone has a 100% chance to affect you psychologically. And keeping guns in the home raises your chances of being shot quite a bit, not to mention the impact on suicide rate. If my family had kept guns around when I was a teenager I'd probably be dead. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: RisiR on September 27, 2014, 01:59:30 pm
I don't own any firearms or feel threatened by my environment but what you're saying is very naive. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 02:00:37 pm
No amount of property is worth killing someone over. And I kinda feel like the psychological damage you do to yourself by living in a constant state of fear of being raped or murdered in the night is going to make a person worse off. Statistically speaking, in a country like USA your chances of being murdered are very low. And most rape cases would not have been prevented by keeping guns in the home or even on yourself because it's not the "violent stranger" that usually does these things.
Keeping yourself prepared to murder someone has a 100% chance to affect you psychologically. And keeping guns in the home raises your chances of being shot quite a bit, not to mention the impact on suicide rate. If my family had kept guns around when I was a teenager I'd probably be dead. Just sayin'.
My parents let me have a shotgun when I was 12, and I kept it in my closet all through high school. I grew up around guns and hunting, and that is all a gun is to me, a tool that I keep in my closet. You need to put in a screw, you use a screwdriver. You need to hammer in a nail, you use a hammer. You need to put a hole in living flesh, you use a gun. It is just a tool.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: RisiR on September 27, 2014, 02:04:19 pm
I'm sure Mike will clarify why you're naive in a minute. ;)
EDIT: There you go.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 02:11:10 pm
My parents let me have a shotgun when I was 12, and I kept it in my closet all through high school. I grew up around guns and hunting, and that is all a gun is to me, a tool that I keep in my closet. You need to put in a screw, you use a screwdriver. You need to hammer in a nail, you use a hammer. You need to put a hole in living flesh, you use a gun. It is just a tool.
It's a tool intended to end life, and must be handled with great presence and care. Lots of tools are dangerous and they each impact the human mind to some extent. Or rather, the human mind affects itself in response to the tools. It's usually not common for us to consider what sort of relationship we have with inanimate objects, but it's there for everything we interact with.
And I approve of your right to own firearms and use them as you will (as long as it's legal and you're never shooting or threatening another person), but to look at the link in OP and say, "Oh, this is useful information!" or even go further and practice searching for and murdering people in your house or another building is an exercise in fear.
I work hard to love people, and hope that it helps make me into the sort of person I want to be. If you want to be the sort of person that is suspicious of friends, family and neighbors, and cynical as a default; then that's good too. But don't tell me you're not affected by your relationship with your firearms.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 02:23:53 pm
to look at the link in OP and say, "Oh, this is useful information!"
I didn't read the link in the OP, but things like 'slicing the pie' and learning to use cover and all that stuff, is just more instruction on proper firearm useage. The better one is instructed, the safer firearms become. As an analogy, think of a gun as a bandsaw instead. Comparing a tool to a tool. When one first learns to use a bandsaw, one cuts through scrap wood to get a feel for the machine. When you get familiar with the machine, you want to move on to more advanced techniques. The same with guns. Just consider the info in the OP as instructional methods on how to use a tool.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 02:29:06 pm
to look at the link in OP and say, "Oh, this is useful information!"
I didn't read the link in the OP, but things like 'slicing the pie' and learning to use cover and all that stuff, is just more instruction on proper firearm useage. The better one is instructed, the safer firearms become. As an analogy, think of a gun as a bandsaw instead. Comparing a tool to a tool. When one first learns to use a bandsaw, one cuts through scrap wood to get a feel for the machine. When you get familiar with the machine, you want to move on to more advanced techniques. The same with guns. Just consider the info in the OP as instructional methods on how to use a tool.
But tools are powerful in how they affect us psychologically. Even bandsaws.
And in this case? It's teaching yourself how to avoid being murdered by other people, and how best to murder them yourself. How can you say that doesn't exacerbate feelings of mistrust and lower your faith in the goodness found in other people?
We're just going in circles now, cats.
"It's just a tool!"
"Yeah but tools really affect us. Maybe it's not something we usually think about, but it happens constantly."
"It's just a tool!"
"Yeah but..."
:/
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 02:38:40 pm
But tools are powerful in how they affect us psychologically. Even bandsaws.
And in this case? It's teaching yourself how to avoid being murdered by other people, and how best to murder them yourself. How can you say that doesn't exacerbate feelings of mistrust and lower your faith in the goodness found in other people?
We're just going in circles now, cats.
"It's just a tool!"
"Yeah but tools really affect us. Maybe it's not something we usually think about, but it happens constantly."
"It's just a tool!"
"Yeah but..."
:/
Me and my guns have never murdered anyone, and I doubt they and I ever will.
You were born with fleshy appendages on the end of your arms, complete with phalanges that you can curl into a dense mass and strike other living things with it. Is being born with natural means to harm opponents just a way to 'exacerbate feelings of mistrust and lower your faith in the goodness found in other people?' What about cats and their claws, alligators and their teeth? Is it more likely that we were given natural and created weapons to foment violence and evil in this world, or that god gave us 'tools' to facilitate our existence and create the society and life that we have now?
Reality works counterintuitively...one would think that a world where everyone works as one and we all are peaceful, would be the best way, but it is not. Our world is one where competition and striving are the order of the day. This 'survival of the fittest' type of mechanism ensures that the ones who rise to the top are the stronger or more determined among us, and their talents and strengths can contribute to our world in the best way. Do you really want mr or ms. average running the show? No, you want the best, and competition does this very nicely.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 02:53:45 pm
Me and my guns have never murdered anyone, and I doubt they and I ever will.
You were born with fleshy appendages on the end of your arms, complete with phalanges that you can curl into a dense mass and strike other living things with it. Is being born with natural means to harm opponents just a way to 'exacerbate feelings of mistrust and lower your faith in the goodness found in other people?' What about cats and their claws, alligators and their teeth? Is it more likely that we were given natural and created weapons to foment violence and evil in this world, or that god gave us 'tools' to facilitate our existence and create the society and life that we have now?
Reality works counterintuitively...one would think that a world where everyone works as one and we all are peaceful, would be the best way, but it is not. Our world is one where competition and striving are the order of the day. This 'survival of the fittest' type of mechanism ensures that the ones who rise to the top are the stronger or more determined among us, and their talents and strengths can contribute to our world in the best way. Do you really want mr or ms. average running the show? No, you want the best, and competition does this very nicely.
Keep your hand clenched tightly into a fist for 60 seconds. Then spend 60 seconds with it held open gently.
Notice a difference?
And that's not how "survival of the fittest" always works :P
Male rhinoceros beetles compete with each other for mating rights by ramming one another with their "horns". They see another male and they fight him in this way, and oftentimes the winner does get to mate. But there are many smaller, "weaker" males that get to mate without ever being at risk for fighting. They look like female rhinoceros beetles, and the other males ignore them while they're busy being macho and mean, giving them ample opportunity to mate to their heart's content.
This can definitely be seen as just another example of competition, but my point is that even within a competitive system the values aren't always blargh violence death strength! Peacefulness, community and compassion are never weaknesses. They're beautiful strengths ;)
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 02:56:52 pm
Peacefulness, community and compassion are never weaknesses. They're beautiful strengths ;)
Sometimes I think that you are an open minded person who I can debate with...and other times I feel that debating with you is like trying to bail out the great lakes with a teaspoon.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 03:00:12 pm
Peacefulness, community and compassion are never weaknesses. They're beautiful strengths ;)
Sometimes I think that you are an open minded person who I can debate with...and other times I feel that debating with you is like trying to bail out the great lakes with a teaspoon.
Sometimes I think you're a person with whom I can have interesting conversations. And other times you get frustrated and quit trying :P
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 03:01:22 pm
No amount of property is worth killing someone over.
It is not about an 'amount' of property, it is about a persons right to be safe in their own 'home' or dwelling. If someone breaches the sanctity of another man's 'castle', then I believe that deadly force is justified. You have to assume that an intruder is not in your home to bake you a cake.
Check out this guy, he didn't break into peoples houses to steal shit, he broke into peoples' houses to murder them.
http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/chase-richard.htm
He would basically rush into a house and immediately shoot/stab everyone he saw. How do you protect against something like this, if you are unarmed?
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on September 27, 2014, 04:21:49 pm
It is not about an 'amount' of property, it is about a persons right to be safe in their own 'home' or dwelling. If someone breaches the sanctity of another man's 'castle', then I believe that deadly force is justified. You have to assume that an intruder is not in your home to bake you a cake.
These cases would be best handled by a jury, imo. If an intruder was unarmed and had done nothing to hurt you or another person in your household, then I feel you should probably be charged with manslaughter at least. Each case is different though, thus the jury.
Your personal sense of safety isn't worth anyone's life.
Check out this guy, he didn't break into peoples houses to steal shit, he broke into peoples' houses to murder them.
http://murderpedia.org/male.C/c/chase-richard.htm
He would basically rush into a house and immediately shoot/stab everyone he saw. How do you protect against something like this, if you are unarmed?
If a man with a gun enters your home and you kill him then hopefully you're let off without any charges once you've been to court. Thankfully, this sort of thing almost never happens. Maybe if you're living in a ghetto or similar it might make sense to worry about this sort of thing, but even living in a poor area as I have often this sort of thing just never happened. The only people I've known of in my area that were murdered were shot by police or killed by a disgruntled family member (with guns they own lawfully and keep in the home).
You do have the right to protect yourself. And you definitely should have that right. These things do happen, if rarely. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to keep guns in your homes or use them when faced with armed individuals. That's a little too extreme.
What I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense to me why a person living in areas like mine would even want to do that. Spending money and harming oneself psychologically in preparation of something that will never come. Being fearful of the highly improbable. Increasing the risk that you or someone close to you will be accidentally injured. Increasing the chance that a family member will commit suicide. Those things happen more frequently than violent people enter homes with murderous intent.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not trying to take your guns away or anything, I simply have no interest in owning one myself. And I bet I'm never murdered in my home.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Spectre on September 27, 2014, 04:40:01 pm
holy off topic ranting batman
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 27, 2014, 05:13:31 pm
This is just your opinion, I rarely even think about my firearms unless they need cleaned or moved or something.
Yes, that piece is just my opinion. There are probably ways to roughly quantify psychological distress and perform studies, but it probably hasn't been done in this way. I believe with all my heart that it is true, for what it's worth. Some of my personal experiences have led me here. The overarching theme of being fearful of one another is the bigger concern here. That people feel it is wise to invest in weapons for the sole purpose of killing other people for x and y reasons. It's kind of depressing.
People are good. All of them. This is something I have to believe. I'm not sure what I'd do if I didn't trust in humanity.
You will never get polio either, but I bet you still got vaccinated against it, didn't you?
We're required vaccinations for work. Vaccinations are different. Purchasing a weapon just in case you have to kill someone is a lot different than protecting yourself from infection.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: ricomock on September 30, 2014, 05:44:57 am
My parents let me have a shotgun when I was 12, and I kept it in my closet all through high school. I grew up around guns and hunting, and that is all a gun is to me, a tool that I keep in my closet. You need to put in a screw, you use a screwdriver. You need to hammer in a nail, you use a hammer. You need to put a hole in living flesh, you use a gun. It is just a tool.
It's a tool intended to end life, and must be handled with great presence and care. Lots of tools are dangerous and they each impact the human mind to some extent. Or rather, the human mind affects itself in response to the tools. It's usually not common for us to consider what sort of relationship we have with inanimate objects, but it's there for everything we interact with.
And I approve of your right to own firearms and use them as you will (as long as it's legal and you're never shooting or threatening another person), but to look at the link in OP and say, "Oh, this is useful information!" or even go further and practice searching for and murdering people in your house or another building is an exercise in fear.
I work hard to love people, and hope that it helps make me into the sort of person I want to be. If you want to be the sort of person that is suspicious of friends, family and neighbors, and cynical as a default; then that's good too. But don't tell me you're not affected by your relationship with your firearms.
No more than you are affected by your relationship with your insurance provider
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: slicknickns on October 02, 2014, 08:37:23 am
Me and my guns have never murdered anyone, and I doubt they and I ever will.
You were born with fleshy appendages on the end of your arms, complete with phalanges that you can curl into a dense mass and strike other living things with it. Is being born with natural means to harm opponents just a way to 'exacerbate feelings of mistrust and lower your faith in the goodness found in other people?' What about cats and their claws, alligators and their teeth? Is it more likely that we were given natural and created weapons to foment violence and evil in this world, or that god gave us 'tools' to facilitate our existence and create the society and life that we have now?
Reality works counterintuitively...one would think that a world where everyone works as one and we all are peaceful, would be the best way, but it is not. Our world is one where competition and striving are the order of the day. This 'survival of the fittest' type of mechanism ensures that the ones who rise to the top are the stronger or more determined among us, and their talents and strengths can contribute to our world in the best way. Do you really want mr or ms. average running the show? No, you want the best, and competition does this very nicely.
Keep your hand clenched tightly into a fist for 60 seconds. Then spend 60 seconds with it held open gently.
Notice a difference?
And that's not how "survival of the fittest" always works :P
Male rhinoceros beetles compete with each other for mating rights by ramming one another with their "horns". They see another male and they fight him in this way, and oftentimes the winner does get to mate. But there are many smaller, "weaker" males that get to mate without ever being at risk for fighting. They look like female rhinoceros beetles, and the other males ignore them while they're busy being macho and mean, giving them ample opportunity to mate to their heart's content.
This can definitely be seen as just another example of competition, but my point is that even within a competitive system the values aren't always blargh violence death strength! Peacefulness, community and compassion are never weaknesses. They're beautiful strengths ;)
God-fucking-dammit you guys shouldn't have fed this troll. This thread was about room clearing, not the merits of self defense and gun ownership.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on October 02, 2014, 12:18:59 pm
This thread was about room clearing, not the merits of self defense and gun ownership.
A simple solution of 1 part vinegar to 10 parts water can be used to replace household cleaning products, such as those containing bleach. It's economical and green! :)
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Infinityshock on October 02, 2014, 11:08:21 pm
This thread was about room clearing, not the merits of self defense and gun ownership.
A simple solution of 1 part vinegar to 10 parts water can be used to replace household cleaning products, such as those containing bleach. It's economical and green! :)
wholly on topic
id buy that for a dollar
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Darkhunter on October 02, 2014, 11:37:07 pm
Surprisingly this is one of only a very few decent tutorials I have seen about navigating a building with armed intruders
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: ed rush on October 03, 2014, 05:30:57 am
This thread just goes to show that every citizen, from the mentally disturbed to the affluent need access to nuclear weapons. After all, nuclear weapons are simply a tool to be used in defense of our livelihoods. You can pry my trident nuclear submarine from my cold dead hands. How you like them apples Obama?
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Lanny on October 03, 2014, 06:19:00 am
Lol, never thought I'd agree with the sentiment expressed in a louis cypher post and yet here I am.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Sirfearoth on October 03, 2014, 07:01:14 am
Not a bad how to, but they left out of the most important part. Having a fucking change of underwear if and when you shit yourself. If you have ever cleared a house or some type of multiroom building by your self then you would exactly what I mean. But none the less it is good for giving you the bare basics.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Infinityshock on October 03, 2014, 11:33:54 am
Not a bad how to, but they left out of the most important part. Having a fucking change of underwear if and when you shit yourself. If you have ever cleared a house or some type of multiroom building by your self then you would exactly what I mean. But none the less it is good for giving you the bare basics.
Anyone that needs to wear a diaper to play with the big boys shouldn't be allowed access to firearms in the first place.
They should stick to playing house with their barbie dolls
Much safer for everyone
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: klubulutu on October 19, 2014, 04:02:00 pm
Anyone that needs to wear a diaper to play with the big boys shouldn't be allowed access to firearms in the first place.
They should stick to playing house with their barbie dolls
Much safer for everyone
easy to say that sitting in a chair safe in your house. if you are faced with the possibility of mortal danger, you would have to be an automaton to not feel fear and apprehension.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: Infinityshock on October 19, 2014, 04:47:47 pm
Anyone that needs to wear a diaper to play with the big boys shouldn't be allowed access to firearms in the first place.
They should stick to playing house with their barbie dolls
Much safer for everyone
easy to say that sitting in a chair safe in your house. if you are faced with the possibility of mortal danger, you would have to be an automaton to not feel fear and apprehension.
You use 'you' entirely too liberally
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on October 19, 2014, 04:51:46 pm
Anyone that needs to wear a diaper to play with the big boys shouldn't be allowed access to firearms in the first place.
They should stick to playing house with their barbie dolls
Much safer for everyone
easy to say that sitting in a chair safe in your house. if you are faced with the possibility of mortal danger, you would have to be an automaton to not feel fear and apprehension.
You use 'you' entirely too liberally
Normally I use 'one' instead of 'you'....but in this case I am directly addressing you, the user infinityshock.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: klubulutu on October 19, 2014, 05:16:15 pm
Yeah? Great. Is this the extent of your critical thinking skills?
Lol, compared to such amazing reasoning as calling someone you disagree with a "Bleeding heart liberal faggot" and calling them lazy. Yup, clearly you're a natural born master of rational discourse.
Title: Re: Wikihow to clear a building w a firearm
Post by: equanimity on October 19, 2014, 05:34:05 pm