Malice makes some good points that need to be addressed

[unbreakable matter]

http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.p...40&postcount=1

1.) The general problems, the problems that were clearly causing a rapid decline in site activity, still apply.

2.) AFAIK with Zok leaving there is no one passionate enough with the skills to actually be willing to implement these changes.

3.) New members will drop to almost zero. Many people came to Zoklet in the past due to IDChief's adword avertising and from Zoklet coming up in search engine results, usually for Bad Ideas and drug related content. TS has neither of these strengths.

4.) There is always loss during migration, it happened when TOTSE shut down. This site has rapidly been losing many valuable member. Many people have likely been on the edge of leaving Zoklet, or visiting less frequently, and with the problems that a new community will have, low activity, lack of content, many will likely finally make the decision to find another established community. I myself am planning to do the same.

5.) As mentioned above, there are problems with new communities. Lack of content, low amount of members, and something I didn't mention: The general development of a community, its policies, and culture. Who the admins and mods are, what the rules and general guidelines are, how rules are enforced (infractions, bans). This isn't a simple matter of moving and everything being exactly the same.

For the main reasons above, unless there is someone, or a group of people who will actually have the passion and drive, the energy, to implement serious changes, put a lot of work in, I am making a strong prediction:

The Sanctuary will fail. It may not be immediately, but within a month it's going to be on the same level as totse2 or totse.info, with a few people left who either like a very small close knit community, those who delude themselves or have unrealistic expectations about the site changing for the better, and those that simply refuse to let go accept of the TOTSE community and accept that it.is.gone.

Now, as I said two paragraphs up, there may be a way for this to work, but realistically, I can't see it happening. I f you know someone or a group of people that have the qualifications, or have found flaws in my analysis that change everything, let me know. Also feel free to suggest major flaws in the plan to move to TS that I missed.

As a simple alternative, I suggest the following:

We find, ask for recommendations, for a community similar to the TOTSE spirit, one that is permissive as to what can be posted and discussed, and it will likely be one that is centered around drugs or crime, social deviants, and we integrate with it, not announcing the migration or speaking of it. We will simply be knew members, but we will know each other, and will meet new interesting people who share our interests, which is what Zoklet desperately needed.
__________________



He's right. This place is a poor replacement. I think seeing it as a temporary step is important

[panthrax]

http://www.zoklet.net/bbs/showpost.p...40&postcount=1

1.) The general problems, the problems that were clearly causing a rapid decline in site activity, still apply.

2.) AFAIK with Zok leaving there is no one passionate enough with the skills to actually be willing to implement these changes.

3.) New members will drop to almost zero. Many people came to Zoklet in the past due to IDChief's adword avertising and from Zoklet coming up in search engine results, usually for Bad Ideas and drug related content. TS has neither of these strengths.

4.) There is always loss during migration, it happened when TOTSE shut down. This site has rapidly been losing many valuable member. Many people have likely been on the edge of leaving Zoklet, or visiting less frequently, and with the problems that a new community will have, low activity, lack of content, many will likely finally make the decision to find another established community. I myself am planning to do the same.

5.) As mentioned above, there are problems with new communities. Lack of content, low amount of members, and something I didn't mention: The general development of a community, its policies, and culture. Who the admins and mods are, what the rules and general guidelines are, how rules are enforced (infractions, bans). This isn't a simple matter of moving and everything being exactly the same.

For the main reasons above, unless there is someone, or a group of people who will actually have the passion and drive, the energy, to implement serious changes, put a lot of work in, I am making a strong prediction:

The Sanctuary will fail. It may not be immediately, but within a month it's going to be on the same level as totse2 or totse.info, with a few people left who either like a very small close knit community, those who delude themselves or have unrealistic expectations about the site changing for the better, and those that simply refuse to let go accept of the TOTSE community and accept that it.is.gone.

Now, as I said two paragraphs up, there may be a way for this to work, but realistically, I can't see it happening. I f you know someone or a group of people that have the qualifications, or have found flaws in my analysis that change everything, let me know. Also feel free to suggest major flaws in the plan to move to TS that I missed.

As a simple alternative, I suggest the following:

We find, ask for recommendations, for a community similar to the TOTSE spirit, one that is permissive as to what can be posted and discussed, and it will likely be one that is centered around drugs or crime, social deviants, and we integrate with it, not announcing the migration or speaking of it. We will simply be knew members, but we will know each other, and will meet new interesting people who share our interests, which is what Zoklet desperately needed.
__________________



He's right. This place is a poor replacement. I think seeing it as a temporary step is important

1. Those problems absolutely still exist within the "collective community mindset". This is things like spats between users, rivalries, dumbass "inside jokes" that trolls think are funny, but actually it's just rampant shit posting, the understanding that Zoklet is for ENTERTAINMENT ONLY rather than for KNOWLEDGE (big one right there). These types of problems cannot be easily corrected. It involves the swaying of viewpoint for this community as right now it's viewed as a "MANY POSTS MAKE LULZ" variety rather than "Post informative, thought provoking threads that generate content" type. Nothing wrong with lulz, but it has it's place.

2. Zoklet is dead. Finito. There are some people here with the skills necessary to operate and manage a website, otherwise this place wouldn't even exist. They wouldn't pay the bills, they wouldn't have purchased a domain name or the software. Obviously someone has the interest, passion, funds, and skills to operate this place. I think this argument is squashed.

3. New members drop to zero? Why would you say that? Zoklet was getting new member registrations every single day, by about 10 per day (that weren't bots). Whether or not those were just alts or not, well, that doesn't really matter now. Plenty of users that are now active in the community discovered Zoklet by a Google search for some Bad Ideas related shit, or BLTC related shit. Zok has agreed to forward domain to here as well as file a Change of URL with both Bing and Google. So any new member sign up that would have gone to Zoklet, will now be brought here. Hopefully they're not repelled by something as dumb as the forum theme.

4. Can't do much about a person who has already made up their mind to quit. Losses always happen in migrations, yes. Can't do much about that but hope that the decent ones move over and the idiots don't. Probably will happen in reverse to that, but what can you do?

5. Of course there is a lack of content. Zoklet members benefit from this new place by having a place to go to in the first place. Sanctuary members benefit from this by us keeping their forum from dying. Same thing happened with Zoklet. Zoklet, back before the 2009 explosion of new users, was a ghost town were Zok talked to his close IRL friends (wires, firekitty, Paragon, etc.) and played with code he was beginning to learn. That's it. It had like, 10 total registered users and basically no content. Totse was shutdown and everyone migrated to Zoklet, blowing up the userbase and content of that site. It grew and grew and continued to grow, having a short "golden years" moment before once again declining and ultimately closing. The stage we're in right now is that of injecting ourselves into another website and having it blow up and hopefully have it's own "golden years".

If no one even bothers to try by already admitting defeat and giving up altogether, deciding that it's "not worth it in the long run because this place might one day close too", or any defeatist mindset like that, then we should just let this motherfucker burn and die and all of us go fuck off to some obscure place that had nothing whatsoever to do with totse and just forget about everyone.

[Dumpster Slut]

Nothing has changed, malice is still gay

[unbreakable matter]

I think the core point about sanctuary being a deviation from "le spirit au totse" (BI, BLTC, BB, fringe topics) and the things that got people coming there in the first place was the most important one. Sure, there are open forums with a couple posts on the topics but a place that has an established but small userbase of one or more of the topics would be better.

Why doesn't someone make a zoklet subreddit? It would at least keep the place alive and more people search for shit via reddit than will google something that will hit on sanctuary.

[Vulture]

1. Some of these general problems have been alleviated by a change of staff.

2. I agree with Malice. It looks like Arnox has the passion but current sanctuary staff lack the skillset. *cites CP and ddos as examples* Some of the zoklet old guard definitely have the skills, but we have trust issues with a portion the old guard, probably for good reason.

4. This is actually exactly what we need to do, but in a way that isn't mutually exclusive of starting anew in our own place.

What if we take a different approach, something like the pirate bay: maintain a collection of sites, whether TOTSE splinter groups or existing sites with overlapping interests, that mirror each other's content in real time? Aspkin, thevespiary, sciencemadness, p0wersurge, blackhatworld, bluelight, whatever Mr. Orange is doing with mmmmQ, and a fuckload of other sites I'm sure exist but I don't know of them.

What if we... basically became a wiki/forum hybrid?

As a simple alternative, I suggest the following:

We find, ask for recommendations, for a community similar to the TOTSE spirit, one that is permissive as to what can be posted and discussed, and it will likely be one that is centered around drugs or crime, social deviants, and we integrate with it, not announcing the migration or speaking of it. We will simply be knew members, but we will know each other, and will meet new interesting people who share our interests, which is what Zoklet desperately needed.

So... Instead of seeking out a new community to infiltrate, we should seek out communities to connect to each other or absorb. Instead of trying to maintain TOTSE as its own niche, TOTSE should become a hive nexus.

[devnull]

Totse is dead. The internet has changed. Nothing we do can bring it back.

[malice]

I know this place will fail, I am working with others to build a better place for zoklet members
If anyone else is interested pm me

Also looking for moderators and admins

[Darkhunter]

No matter what all things come to an end.

[malice]

No matter what all things come to an end.

With the exception of the zok alternative as it won't get shut down and no one will leak the admins details

[Iudicium Infernalum]

I may go to totseans and hang out with Dfg.

[Slave of the Beast]

I may go to totseans and hang out with Dfg.

You have every reason to hate yourself Psycho, but TDR's an admin there; no need to commit suicide.

[Iudicium Infernalum]

1. Some of these general problems have been alleviated by a change of staff.

2. I agree with Malice. It looks like Arnox has the passion but current sanctuary staff lack the skillset. *cites CP and ddos as examples* Some of the zoklet old guard definitely have the skills, but we have trust issues with a portion the old guard, probably for good reason.

4. This is actually exactly what we need to do, but in a way that isn't mutually exclusive of starting anew in our own place.

What if we take a different approach, something like the pirate bay: maintain a collection of sites, whether TOTSE splinter groups or existing sites with overlapping interests, that mirror each other's content in real time? Aspkin, thevespiary, sciencemadness, p0wersurge, blackhatworld, bluelight, whatever Mr. Orange is doing with mmmmQ, and a fuckload of other sites I'm sure exist but I don't know of them.

What if we... basically became a wiki/forum hybrid?

As a simple alternative, I suggest the following:

We find, ask for recommendations, for a community similar to the TOTSE spirit, one that is permissive as to what can be posted and discussed, and it will likely be one that is centered around drugs or crime, social deviants, and we integrate with it, not announcing the migration or speaking of it. We will simply be knew members, but we will know each other, and will meet new interesting people who share our interests, which is what Zoklet desperately needed.

So... Instead of seeking out a new community to infiltrate, we should seek out communities to connect to each other or absorb. Instead of trying to maintain TOTSE as its own niche, TOTSE should become a hive nexus.

Would thank if that were possible. I think that's a pretty good idea actually.

[Iudicium Infernalum]

I may go to totseans and hang out with Dfg.

You have every reason to hate yourself Psycho, but TDR's an admin there; no need to commit suicide.

Already got an account and Dfg's Ok, so i'm not worried.

[Vulture]

Psychomanthis just called one of my ideas a good one. What do?

I feel both repulsed and honored.

Spoiler

[Slave of the Beast]

I may go to totseans and hang out with Dfg.

You have every reason to hate yourself Psycho, but TDR's an admin there; no need to commit suicide.

Already got an account and Dfg's Ok, so i'm not worried.

Maybe things have changed since Dfg had a nervous breakdown, but the last time I used that site in any meaningful sense of the word TDR essentially did as he pleased. Which is why the place is fucking dead. Although if you're prepared to tolerate that and kiss his arse I'm sure you'll be fine.