pros and cons of college

[joe camel]

So i have been kicking around the idea of going to my local tech school and maybe picking up a few classes. I'm really only interested in learning a trade, such as welding, auto repair, etc. But what about learning something like IT? Would it really be worth it in the lomg run? Being a convicted felon, could i even get a job doing something like that? What are good things to get a degree in? I only have a high school diploma so a lot of jobs are not available to me. Would it really be worth going to college? I also work full time. Would i even be able to work and focus on my studies?

[Zanick]

If you have the opportunity to go now, I would do it. You might come out with something you can't use at first, but employers like it and it's better than going back later without help from your parents. Otherwise I wouldn't worry unless you want to work in a STEM field, academia or another specialized area.

[Prometheus]

Most colleges have councilors that will help you figure out what to take and what you'd be qualified for, even with your record. And I mean most legit colleges, private colleges (like Corinthian) will blow smoke up your ass to get your money.

[Zanick]

If you want to go but don't know what you want to do, start with your general education credits at a community college. Use extracurricular courses, clubs and student organizations to explore your interests. If something really catches on, start hanging around faculty who oversee the subject: take their classes and stay after to chat, offer to help with materials, join their clubs and generally form a professional relationship that benefits them. You'll gain a mentor who can provide a letter of recommendation later on when you need it. Think of everything you do there as an investment.

[Suicidal Fish]

In the UK it seems everybody is studying IT, but I guess it goes in roundabouts as 1 day we are short of plumbers, next day doctors, next day IT people etc.

But IT is the future so that could be the safest bet.

In regards to convictions Most employers I know don't check unless you work in a bank or something

[ftlod]

I think it's always worth starting something, even if it is just to learn and expand your knowledge. I don't know if you have government subsidised education or if it's paid outright; where I live we have a government debt scheme where it's paid back at a small rate over time after you're earning an average wage. Anyway, I think college is a really growing experience especially if you haven't studied for a while, it's pretty cool to look back and see what you've achieved and how much you've learnt. I think you should go for it, it's certainly not going to hinder job opportunities.

PS - i study and work full time. I take a slightly smaller class load and I manage. It can be done, you'll just have to keep adjusting your work load till you find what works for you. You can always pick up more once you've got into the swing of it all.

[Vulture]

It's worth it if it's actually a useful skill. As far as welding/auto repair, MoaningLisa mentioned snap-on's student discount program that would allow you to buy tools at a large discount and sell for a profit. I'd also deem IT skills worth it even if you can't get a job in IT. You might gain some tacho pro-esque skills that way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2izJyoV8Rds

[LostStranger]

College by itself, is not really worth the money, especially IT. I finished Information System major last year and when I got into a job I need to relearn everything. It's true that you do get one or two stuff in know how from college but most of the stuff that you need in the work comes from experience and self-study. There are a lot of free learning material online if you just aim for the knowledge and in IT all you need to to learn something is just a computer. Except of course if you venture into IC and machinery, even then there are cheaper alternative for that.

The real reason for college or university is of course, the channel. It is after all a community and you'll meet people that can help you to get a better opportunity even if you are not active in class. All you need to do is actually just ask, mainly the lecturer, I get some freelance IT jobs from there and now I can do some freelance code monkey full time.

Is it worth it? I'll say yes, if you want to get to college then go for it, it's okay not to get perfect attendance or anything as long as you try not to fail, it's perfectly fine to be average just watch the minimum passing grade, there will be a lot of people like you and if you can get a connection from it, I'll say you get the true value of college.

[Lanny]

IT is in a weird place right now. It's been professionalizing for a while but it's kind of unclear if certs or a degree are the appropriate qualification. You need something though, it's going to be very hard to find someone who will let you handle their infrastructure without some kind of assurance you know what you're doing. In the US IT is a pretty saturated job market too. If you already know IT (like real IT, not fixing computers) then you might just blitz the certs. If you still need to learn it might be worthwhile going the college route.

Note that "software engineers"/"programmers"/code monkeys are not IT people. They're their own thing. There is no required training for those jobs, you just have to be able to program and demonstrate that somehow. Historically to learn to program people have gone through EE (really historically), CS (still probably the norm), or Software Engineering (becoming more popular these days but still a little looked down on) undergrad programs. There's also this "dev bootcamp" phenomenon which employers seem willing to accept and has produced positive results in the past (I'm a little dismissive but I've done the undergrad route so maybe I'm just bitter). Those jobs are in crazy high demand at the moment. I think it's a great career but you really do have to enjoy programming to do well.

[theKit]

I'm starting to hate programming - been trying to improve my understanding of OOP and I rewrote a program to utilize OOP principles and now I've got a tiny bug that is KICKING MY ASS. I gave up and cried.

[edit]

No like really, I cried. I think I'd like to do this for a living but if I was in an office and ran into this problem, I don't think I'd be permitted to sit around for 4 hours of my shift trying to fix a bug and then cause disturbances by openly crying at my work station.

[Lanny]

I'm starting to hate programming - been trying to improve my understanding of OOP and I rewrote a program to utilize OOP principles and now I've got a tiny bug that is KICKING MY ASS. I gave up and cried.

Heh, what's your level of programming experience? Where are you getting your OOP principles?

There's a lot to say about OOP in programming education and I have some strong views on the subject that aren't fringe per se but don't represent industry consensus. I'm always tempted to go on a long winded philosophical rant when it comes up, but I try to be cautious not to load people up on dogma they're going to be told is wrong.

In the immediate I can say, and this is pretty well agreed upon, trying to twist problems into the OOP paradigm when they don't fit is not what you want to do. OOP is an organizational technique, a means for managing complexity in large projects, it's supposed to make your life easier not harder. A lot of it is intuition that is best won by engaging in actual large projects. When people talk about "patterns" or "best practices", that's someone who's gone and shot themselves in the foot and what they're talking about is how they fixed it. But if you don't know what the pitfall is then it's just meaningless, and normally the best way to find out is to go shoot yourself in the foot too.

No like really, I cried. I think I'd like to do this for a living but if I was in an office and ran into this problem, I don't think I'd be permitted to sit around for 4 hours of my shift trying to fix a bug and then cause disturbances by openly crying at my work station.

Lol, well usually in a professional environment you'll have other programmers there and they'll probably be more experienced. Asking for help is a virtue.

[theKit]

I'm starting to hate programming - been trying to improve my understanding of OOP and I rewrote a program to utilize OOP principles and now I've got a tiny bug that is KICKING MY ASS. I gave up and cried.

Heh, what's your level of programming experience? Where are you getting your OOP principles?

There's a lot to say about OOP in programming education and I have some strong views on the subject that aren't fringe per se but don't represent industry consensus. I'm always tempted to go on a long winded philosophical rant when it comes up, but I try to be cautious not to load people up on dogma they're going to be told is wrong.

In the immediate I can say, and this is pretty well agreed upon, trying to twist problems into the OOP paradigm when they don't fit is not what you want to do. OOP is an organizational technique, a means for managing complexity in large projects, it's supposed to make your life easier not harder. A lot of it is intuition that is best won by engaging in actual large projects. When people talk about "patterns" or "best practices", that's someone who's gone and shot themselves in the foot and what they're talking about is how they fixed it. But if you don't know what the pitfall is then it's just meaningless, and normally the best way to find out is to go shoot yourself in the foot too.

No like really, I cried. I think I'd like to do this for a living but if I was in an office and ran into this problem, I don't think I'd be permitted to sit around for 4 hours of my shift trying to fix a bug and then cause disturbances by openly crying at my work station.

Lol, well usually in a professional environment you'll have other programmers there and they'll probably be more experienced. Asking for help is a virtue.

My OOP exp is very limited hence the reason I'm trying to 'get it'. I'm reading this book: tinyurl.com/oopkitoop

My programming exp as a whole is also limited. I've been doing it for years but have only a few completed projects. I'm confident given enough time I can create just about anything 'normal' web application but it will look and probably run like shit.

[Idiosyncrasy]

College seems to be more of a qualifier for a job than a place to teach a ton of skills. A lot of companies just want someone with a degree, even if the major is not at all related. I think it shows that you are well-rounded and you have the critical thinking skills necessary to solve unstructured problems.

For me, getting a business degree has been helpful to get my foot in the door, but education is quickly eclipsed by experience if you want to move up. Hiring managers overlook education after you get a few years of experience because then your industry experience is more valuable than the theory you learned.

A degree still helps to get your foot in the door.

The only cons I see are the time commitment and the tuition. Education is an expensive racket.

[theKit]

$40k just to 'get in the door' doesn't sound worth it to me.

[Idiosyncrasy]

I must have overlooked the $40K part, unless you are just being abstract.

The average high school diploma will probably get a job starting around $10 per hour, or around $20K per year if full time. After your proposed $40K degree, an average college graduate entry level job might get you about $40K per year, compared to half that without a degree. Now, you do lose the earned income over the 4 years or so while earning the degree, but you can still work part time. In this scenario, the degree pays for itself in about 6 years after graduation, with more growth opportunities thereafter.

Math being -
High School Diploma: 10 years working at $20k/yr, nets $200k
College Degree: 4 years not working (or limited work), minus $40k tuition, plus 6 years working at $40k, nets $200k

That's your break-even point. Anything after that is profit. Now that doesn't factor in the time value of money, but it also assumes no promotions during that timeframe. Just a hypothetical scenario, based on my observations and no statistical research. Results may vary.