Hayek's philosophy explained (stonedaneous order)

[Rook]

Damn right man, damn right! It's hard for me to sometimes not be at least a little disillusioned because of my particular situation.. But I agree with you entirely, that's the world I want to see. And as you mentioned with a community taking care of a factory diliberately and consciously polluting the water table.. How fucked up is it that we as a society accept that these malevolent corporations are protected by pre-established regulations.. Hell, some of them aren't even pre-established.. They are constantly lawyering up and protecting their asses with.. What, some words on paper? I see the illusion you speak of.. Fear of repucushions reinforced with planned acts of violence to instill obedience throughout the masses..

And a lot of people are awake to this.. Some, like me.. Don't vocalize it often simply because our specific situation isn't as dire or seemingly oppressive as others.. Another thing to consider is, how far is just too far? When do the masses fight back and reclaim their freedom? Surely, without a damn good incident to stir the pot, the powers that be will methodically continue to siphon freedom while successfully portraying freedom fighters as the enemy of the state.. The ignorant masses eat it up and condemn them as we'll.. Why? Because blind patriotism is fashionable.. Gah, I don't even know.. I think to think on this some more.

[starvingniglet]

the 'powers that be' have perfected 'human farming' to such a degree, that most people will never 'wake up'.

[Rook]

Here's the thing.. These conversations that we familiarize around here, while enlightening to some or just the passer byers.. Is all well and good. How do we achieve change? The masses aren't awake or.. Simply aren't interested. Some would go as far to say that their life as a slave to the system is adversely better than if they weren't living in an oppressed society. And.. For some, that may actually be right. We have to be careful not to mistake the strive for freedom with any sort of angst for those rightfully price lager through genuine hard work.. In my opinion, it seems that the only efficient way to tear down the machine is from th inside.. How do you get good people on the inside? Is it even possible to do so without thinking they themselves have crossed over? Our paranoia becomes us.. There has to be some relatively intelligent ideas out there on this subject.. I can think of many, but then I pick them a part. I'm not sure you can reall succeed without having to sacrifice at least some part of the integrity of the original goal? Without purity, it's all for nothing..

[starvingniglet]

Here's the thing.. These conversations that we familiarize around here, while enlightening to some or just the passer byers.. Is all well and good. How do we achieve change? The masses aren't awake or.. Simply aren't interested. Some would go as far to say that their life as a slave to the system is adversely better than if they weren't living in an oppressed society. And.. For some, that may actually be right. We have to be careful not to mistake the strive for freedom with any sort of angst for those rightfully price lager through genuine hard work.. In my opinion, it seems that the only efficient way to tear down the machine is from th inside.. How do you get good people on the inside? Is it even possible to do so without thinking they themselves have crossed over? Our paranoia becomes us.. There has to be some relatively intelligent ideas out there on this subject.. I can think of many, but then I pick them a part. I'm not sure you can reall succeed without having to sacrifice at least some part of the integrity of the original goal? Without purity, it's all for nothing..

hell, I don't know

[Ninja]

Here's the thing.. These conversations that we familiarize around here, while enlightening to some or just the passer byers.. Is all well and good. How do we achieve change? The masses aren't awake or.. Simply aren't interested. Some would go as far to say that their life as a slave to the system is adversely better than if they weren't living in an oppressed society. And.. For some, that may actually be right. We have to be careful not to mistake the strive for freedom with any sort of angst for those rightfully price lager through genuine hard work.. In my opinion, it seems that the only efficient way to tear down the machine is from th inside.. How do you get good people on the inside? Is it even possible to do so without thinking they themselves have crossed over? Our paranoia becomes us.. There has to be some relatively intelligent ideas out there on this subject.. I can think of many, but then I pick them a part. I'm not sure you can reall succeed without having to sacrifice at least some part of the integrity of the original goal? Without purity, it's all for nothing..

hell, I don't know

It's all psychological warfare.

[Rook]

Here's the thing.. These conversations that we familiarize around here, while enlightening to some or just the passer byers.. Is all well and good. How do we achieve change? The masses aren't awake or.. Simply aren't interested. Some would go as far to say that their life as a slave to the system is adversely better than if they weren't living in an oppressed society. And.. For some, that may actually be right. We have to be careful not to mistake the strive for freedom with any sort of angst for those rightfully price lager through genuine hard work.. In my opinion, it seems that the only efficient way to tear down the machine is from th inside.. How do you get good people on the inside? Is it even possible to do so without thinking they themselves have crossed over? Our paranoia becomes us.. There has to be some relatively intelligent ideas out there on this subject.. I can think of many, but then I pick them a part. I'm not sure you can reall succeed without having to sacrifice at least some part of the integrity of the original goal? Without purity, it's all for nothing..

hell, I don't know

It's all psychological warfare.

 Damn, I was writing that on mobile and there were quite a few sentences that just didnt translate into what they were supposed to. Eh, well.. Again, I see the point of the problems with the system.. but no one has an answer on how to fix, combat, or transcend these problems. It'd almost be easier to play the system for whats its worth (which is what most people do anyways), and then get out by setting yourself up to be unreliant.. which is somewhat my goal with my self sufficient farm (well, it's getting there).. At this point in time, it's the best solution I can think of.. And perhaps, if everyone else was trying to do it, then it really would take away the control the government has... hmm.. now that I think of it, if we could inspire a nation of peoples to strive for self sufficiency.. it really would put a boot in the governments ass.. except maybe then they would tax you on the sun for your solar energy, or develop advance diseases to ruin sharecropper farms.. Blah.. all this talk is getting boring..

[Nasheeds and Lesbians]

where does security from theft and and intimidation fall in within this thesis?

private security companies with AK's to body anyone using coercion?

nah, seriously, as much as I don't think that's really an issue (as long as it doesn't result in monopolies that can't fall which doesn't really make sense since without regulation and complete control of all factors of production, the monopoly will be forced to rely on other companies who could in theory collude to enforce price discrimination on the monopoly and as a result create competition again) the yakuza literally become shareholders and lock the doors at meetings and tell people what the company is going to do. That's the main source of income for one of the biggest gangs in the world in the most keynesian country in the world.

 Basically, "intimidation" is fucking rampart now in the form of "I take yo house, I take yo car, I take yo resources I take yo country" if you're talking about coercion through physical intimdation then basically who gives a fuck? How the fuck is that a real problem and how can it get worse by allowing a spontaneous order based on mutual self interest any more than it already is?

Read the article he says "no one is saying the New York Stock Exchange would have popped up overnight on its own" or something to that effect, basically, the climate/order necessitates things like this and it's in the motual interests of nearly everyone to have these things so they happen.

[starvingniglet]

It'd almost be easier to play the system for whats its worth (which is what most people do anyways), and then get out by setting yourself up to be unreliant

this

[starvingniglet]

Basically, "intimidation" is fucking rampart now in the form of "I take yo house, I take yo car, I take yo resources I take yo country" if you're talking about coercion through physical intimdation then basically who gives a fuck? How the fuck is that a real problem and how can it get worse by allowing a spontaneous order based on mutual self interest any more than it already is?

Aaannnnnd this X 1,0000,000

[Nasheeds and Lesbians]

Perhaps I am one of those liberterian neckbeards you speak of, but I see no reason why not to believe in the idea of spontaneous order. Everywhere I've been shows me that the freer the market - the faster the economic growth. At the same time, it also means a fairly free people. Paradoxically compare healthcare in Europe and in the US - the US healthcare system is far from being a free market, even when compared to the systems in Europe and who could've guessed - it's a fucking joke. However, on the flipside, look at the job markets in the US vs in Europe - Europe has much stronger labor laws so hiring and firing people is much harder whereas most places in the US have the whole at-will work thing, which means if you're not performing - you're out. I've been able to achieve much more whilst living in the US than I would have been able to do in Europe because of this.

While your post is Hayek in a nutshell, I recommend "The Road to Surfdom" as a better introduction to Hayek as well as a surprisingly up to date warning on what's happening. The book was initially written as a warning against socialism during WW2, but god damn it, I think it applies even more nowadays.

Good post, OP.

People really don't understand how financing health care works, I don't pretend to but Tommy Douglas did. He created the universal standard for free health care and tbh the Canadian system seems pretty sweet. I don't think there's anything wrong with incentivizing donations. Big hospitals put on auctions/fundraisers and shit every year to bring in more money.

I think a quantitative approach to regulation in order to combat any negative effects from growth is the best approach to regulation. The problem is, quants work for 5 years on a math problem that is enacted once to make a company 8 billion dollars then get paid to never talk about it again. In a way its "le invisible hand made uninvisble then invisible shhhhh" but it's really just massive human capital wasted because regulation.

Fucking Islamic economics and the concept of a 2.5% zhakat to go to social programs (health care education, etc) is actually a decent approach and basically what Thomas Piketty just spent over 9000 pages explaining in a different way with a lot of stupid tangents. The European welfare state emphasizes human capital while the US's emphasis on human capital through post secondary is met with failures to keep jobs in those sectors and contraction. There are good and bad about both, really. Germany seems to have their shit together (as usual) but France is a fucking piece of shit. Fucking backing financial transactions with property seems a pretty obvious way to prevent inflation, I bet if it didn't have the Sharia aspect it'd be a good system for risk averse investment. The smartest economists agree it'd be a better system than a debt one based on fucking nothing.

I think the OP was more an explanation of "free market =/= anarchy" which is an important distinction to make. The Road to Serfdom basically got Hayek blacklisted from the economic community then was later hailed as one of the greatest economic works of the 20th century. This is how you know you're ahead of the curve and it's debatable as to whether it's even being heralded now. Quantitative taxation that's used to incentivize investment is something that needs to be done in my opinion. I just need to smoke more weed so I get autistic wit my derivatives and start getting this done