Author Topic: Living Reality  (Read 11548 times)

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Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #135 on: October 06, 2014, 02:32:28 am »
you trying to sound deep.

How am I trying to "sound deep," bro?
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
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Offline Lanny

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #136 on: October 06, 2014, 04:57:01 am »
lol

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #137 on: October 06, 2014, 02:55:10 pm »
lol

What are you loling about?  I would think that you of all people would agree with what I'm saying here.
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
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Offline Montane

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #138 on: October 06, 2014, 10:52:38 pm »
I don't know.  If we're saying that reality is the performer, then if there was no performer there would be no reality.   Reality is right now though,  so obviously something is putting on the show.  If you say your behavior is like a tug of war between you and the forces of nature,  that would mean that there is something within you that has a will of its own, and I don't know if there is anything to actually suggest that.  If everything is determined by the forces of nature there really is no individual will.  You are simply an expression of the whole, an act being performed by reality itself.   The feeling of being an individual with a consciousness may very well be a sort of illusion.

How could reality be a performer? You asked me whether I perform or am merely a performance myself. Well, when an individual labels himself as such, there then arises that performer who can separate from "others" and label his "own" experiences as separate.

There is a tug of war, because we can be forces of our own. That is obvious in the abundant strife present in humanity.

If you spread ideas that individual conscious is illusion, then those that listen will forfeit the idea of the oh so necessary creative revolution of their minds. The ones with minds already made will continue their actions of self-interest and the evils in civilization will persist, leading to things I don't hope to see in my lifetime, yet work to thwart.
The emptiness of this eternal oblivion is oh so fulfilling

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #139 on: October 08, 2014, 12:42:57 pm »
How could reality be a performer? You asked me whether I perform or am merely a performance myself. Well, when an individual labels himself as such, there then arises that performer who can separate from "others" and label his "own" experiences as separate.

As I see it, that's how most people already think.  Most people already see themselves as an individual something that is separate from "others".  However, I think that's a sort of illusion.

There is a tug of war, because we can be forces of our own. That is obvious in the abundant strife present in humanity.

Maybe you are right about that, I don't know.  I just don't see any reason to actually believe that.  You could say that a person has a will of his own, but is that true?  Or is everything you are ever going to do already determined by forces which are beyond your control?  Is "the abundant strife present in humanity" the result of some sort of conflict between different peoples conflicting desires, or is it really just a part of the nature of our reality, like a chemical reaction that we don't actually have any control over?  I suppose you could say it is both, depending on what your perspective is.  But what's the truth?  Is there any reason at all to believe an "individual" has a will of his own?

If you spread ideas that individual conscious is illusion, then those that listen will forfeit the idea of the oh so necessary creative revolution of their minds.

How so?  What is this "oh so necessary creative revolution"?

The ones with minds already made will continue their actions of self-interest and the evils in civilization will persist, leading to things I don't hope to see in my lifetime, yet work to thwart.

What do you mean by this?  Isn't this a little contradictory?
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
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Offline Montane

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #140 on: October 09, 2014, 12:50:45 am »
How could reality be a performer? You asked me whether I perform or am merely a performance myself. Well, when an individual labels himself as such, there then arises that performer who can separate from "others" and label his "own" experiences as separate.

As I see it, that's how most people already think.  Most people already see themselves as an individual something that is separate from "others".  However, I think that's a sort of illusion.

There is a tug of war, because we can be forces of our own. That is obvious in the abundant strife present in humanity.

Maybe you are right about that, I don't know.  I just don't see any reason to actually believe that.  You could say that a person has a will of his own, but is that true?  Or is everything you are ever going to do already determined by forces which are beyond your control?  Is "the abundant strife present in humanity" the result of some sort of conflict between different peoples conflicting desires, or is it really just a part of the nature of our reality, like a chemical reaction that we don't actually have any control over?  I suppose you could say it is both, depending on what your perspective is.  But what's the truth?  Is there any reason at all to believe an "individual" has a will of his own?

If you spread ideas that individual conscious is illusion, then those that listen will forfeit the idea of the oh so necessary creative revolution of their minds.

How so?  What is this "oh so necessary creative revolution"?

The ones with minds already made will continue their actions of self-interest and the evils in civilization will persist, leading to things I don't hope to see in my lifetime, yet work to thwart.

What do you mean by this?  Isn't this a little contradictory?

The individual is an illusion depending on the perspective. Observations of the tree render people as leaves part of the whole, but those leaves can choose to change color in the fall, and you can watch each one of them.

There are patterns in the nature of forces and energies of which we are subject, because we are nature ourselves.  It is necessarily determined, but to an extent, after which it becomes theory, because I see a conscious energy and there is just no way to quantify and physical measure it. The other energies we utilize (i.e. metabolic chemical, nervous electrical, and muscular kinetic) can be rationed and used according to this central station of consciousness activity, which is such a web, it is easy to get caught. Simply following trains of thought can help us understand ourselves. Each individual must do it. That is a sign that there is such a thing as the single unit: each individual must understand themselves, it can't be given to them. When that understanding has happened, the source of desire and beliefs, knowledge, all the mess of our centre is revealed. It is sky-- desires, clouds passing by...

However, that understanding is quite rare... so rare. So many leaves starting to wither simply because they see their petiole...

Many people feel so self understood, like they really KNOW themselves, but all they've done is set standards-- beliefs and visions of what 'should.' Naturally, conflict will be created. They have their reasons, justifications (excuses,) but so much is wrong. It is based on self-interest, which can only be enclosing and isolating, inherently evil. Gain and attainment are selfish, even for groups and organizations, religions. Conflict with people elsewhere is inevitable when a self is identified separately, especially in righteous ways, judgmental and critical.

Seeing all of this is quite the revolution, because when one really sees what is, then one will understand reality. Unfortunately, the foundation of our present dominant civilization goes against this unfiltered perception-- this perception that discerns such a unity... receives and can emit such love...

This industrial civilization that lives off the poor can bring decimation to a once beautiful planet (it's already brought some.) I work to fight against this in anyway, be it through 'green' technologies, being a candle, or simply reduction of a carbon footprint.

Perceiving leads to realization to understanding to freedom and love and truth and light and disappointment and "God" to a constant revolution of the mind that perpetually transforms to this present moment, greeting it all anew, fresh, and the mind itself fresh, full of energy ready to earnestly approach the problems in society, that relationship between you and me.

Our discordant symphony is the song of our ability to act freely. Desires are controlled by beliefs which are formed by labeled experiences, which are biased segregations of reality's whole: a total pink noise orchestra of each player playing his heart out.



The emptiness of this eternal oblivion is oh so fulfilling

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2014, 05:50:40 pm »
Do individuals really have a will of their own?  Or is your will determined by forces beyond your control?
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
&T

Offline Lanny

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2014, 08:46:38 pm »
was that a question ogge?

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #143 on: October 21, 2014, 12:53:59 pm »
was that a question ogge?

Do you believe individuals really have a will of their own?  Or is your will actually determined by forces beyond your control?
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
&T

Offline Lanny

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2014, 03:47:24 pm »
I remember we actually had a pretty long running thread about free will and compatibilism. In case you don't remember my answers would be no and yes respectively.

The real question, however, is how would you pronounce "ogge"? Like "oh-gy" (kinda like the bear)? Or maybe "oh-gee" as in gangster. What do you think?

Offline RisiR

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2014, 03:50:48 pm »
I'd pronounce it Ogge like Oggay without the -ay but the eh sound of meh. Ogge.
who's the judge of if its funny and or clever? the mods. period.

Offline starvingniglet

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2014, 03:55:33 pm »
.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2014, 05:41:35 pm by starvingniglet »
Quote from: constantinople
Wow fighting and banging indiscrimenantly, the hallmarks of a repsectable individual.

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2014, 04:09:19 pm »
its obbe, obbe-viously.

'eggo' upside down and backwards

My username actually has nothing to do with the upside down eggo logo, other than resemblance.  I explained this in the "explain your name and avatar" thread.

I remember we actually had a pretty long running thread about free will and compatibilism. In case you don't remember my answers would be no and yes respectively.

Therefore couldn't we say that life, or more specifically your own behavior, is an activity which reality is performing?  Is an individual not an expression of the greater whole?

What exactly makes an someone an individual anyways?
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
&T

Offline Montane

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2014, 04:20:06 pm »
Do individuals really have a will of their own?  Or is your will determined by forces beyond your control?

Quote from: Montane
There are patterns in the nature of forces and energies of which we are subject, because we are nature ourselves.  It is necessarily determined, but to an extent, after which it becomes theory, because I see a conscious energy and there is just no way to quantify and physical measure it. The other energies we utilize (i.e. metabolic chemical, nervous electrical, and muscular kinetic) can be rationed and used according to this central station of consciousness activity, which is such a web, it is easy to get caught.

Why are you trying to separate the individual from the whole of natural forces and energies? It's like... we have a set of hand tools, and made from the same tools, with which we can only do so much.
The emptiness of this eternal oblivion is oh so fulfilling

Offline Obbe

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Re: Living Reality
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2014, 04:24:20 pm »
Why are you trying to separate the individual from the whole of natural forces and energies? It's like... we have a set of hand tools, and made from the same tools, with which we can only do so much.

I don't think individuals are separate from the whole of nature.
All of the true things I am about to tell you are shameless lies.
&T