Author Topic: Russia Vs Israel  (Read 5675 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Cory

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2014, 04:43:25 am »
http://i.imgur.com/H8QJlHC.jpg

So then there are 15k Russian tanks, along with their entire air force and navy, all bombing ukraine from all sides non stop then?

You said invasion right?

A.) A picture of a Russian soldier giving a kid a cat literally means nothing.

B.) You don't need "15k tanks", or "the entire air force and navy", to invade a country. The Russian goals appear to be more limited then invading the whole country anyways. They just seem to want the East.

Cory is retarded and should be banned immediately due to the info in his signature. He also apparently has no knowledge of how Israel works. America is their puppet, used to push and bully their way around. Why do you think America invaded Iraq and all those other countries, and now ISIS? Because we care about the people of these countries? Get real and look at a fucking map kid. WE'RE CLEARING THE WAY FOR JEWS.

A.) All because America has a close alliance with Israel doesn't make us their "puppet". I know this is probably over your head but politics, especially international relations, is is bit more complicated and nuanced then you seem to think. Both Israel and the United States are strategically valuable to each other, although we do increasingly see the West and Israel drifting apart over Israel's refusal to be any less belligerent. Ultimately the reason we are allies with them is because the Cold War. The Soviets counted heads and cast their lot with the Arabs so we had to support a counterweight.

B.) The USA invaded Iraq in 2003 because the Neo-Conservitaves in Washington wanted to create a "New American Century" by establishing American dominance in the Middle East to secure the flow of oil from the region. It was about Great Power Politics, with Peak Oil coming the USA would be in a dominant position over Russia and China in the decades to come. Obviously this policy backfired horribly and in fact may very well lead to the emergence of Iran as a major dominant player in the Middle East. It wasn't just "because ISRAEL11!!!1". Real life is more complicated then that.

C.) By fighting the Islamic State we aren't really helping Israel any if at all. IS is mostly fighting the main enemies of Israel. That is to say they are mainly undermining the interests of Iran in Iraq and Syria.

It is common lnowledge the American tax payer gives more money to the IDF than Israelis do. If you didn't vote for Obama and have your head full of nigger jew bullshit than maybe you could see the facts for what they are.


Wrong again, I'm beginning to detect a trend.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-america-really-spends-on-israels-defense-2012-9

Last week the Jerusalem Post reported that former Israeli Defense Force (IDF) Commander-in-Chief Gabi Ashkenazi told a conference that U.S. taxpayers have contributed more to the Israeli defense budget than Israeli taxpayers in the past three years.

This comment has been passed around everywhere.

Alison Weir of Veterans News Now pointed out it was the first instance of an Israeli leader saying that U.S. taxpayers contribute more money to Israel's defense budget than Israeli taxpayers.

But the claim seemed fishy to us.

Given that U.S. military aid to Israel was $2.775 billion in 2010, $3 billion in 2011, $3.07 billion in 2012 (and $3.15 billion per year from 2013-2018) while Israel's defense budget is around $15 billion, it made us wonder how much Israeli taxpayers contribute and where the other $12 billion non-U.S. aid comes from.

We emailed Shmuel Even, an expert of Israel's defense at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv, who told us that Israel's up-to-date defense budget for 2012 is $15 billion, with 70 percent contributed by Israeli taxpayers, 21 percent coming from U.S. aid and 9 percent coming from Defense Ministry income.

That would put the Israeli taxpayer contribution at $10.5 billion, compared to $3.15 billion from the U.S. (Even added that the U.S. aid in 2011 was $3.1 billion and that most of the aid comes in weapons as opposed to cash.)

So was Lt. Gen. Ashkenazi—who served as the IDF supreme commander from 2007 to 2011—simply mistaken? Or is he alluding to something that one of Israel's top researchers doesn't know?

Shmuel Even watched the video of Ashkenazi's speech and said the former IDF chief "said it, but I don't know why."

Even added that Ashkenazi "also said that the U.S. military aid is $3B. So he knows the numbers."

But it's ok, sit back and enjoy the sheet of ignorance you're wearing. Type out some bullshit reply that says nothing and refutes none of the facts I've slapped your fat face with.

It's obvious you are the jackass wrapped in a sheet of your own ignorance and lack of understanding of how the real world functions. Just go back to your conspricary theory echo-chamber where you can play make believe that you are some kind of "enlightened" person and just so much different from all the other kids at school.

Cory is fucking retarded. He can't even articulate his side of the issue correctly or back it up with anything. All he knows is "murkkka good, Russian expansion bad" because bald russians scare him while they literally try to recruit me into their militias

A.) I am probably the only person in this goddamn thread who has backed up any of what I've said.

B.) I highly, highly doubt anyone has tried to recruit you into a rebel militia operating in the Ukraine. You probably couldn't even point to the goddamn place on a map.
Ideology: Social-Democrat

"The voices in my head couldn't agree on whether it was a good idea."
-Greyfox

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2014, 05:24:55 pm »
So I see you decided to just basically ignore everything I said and post a Gish Gallop instead but here we go....

>implying Israel wouldn't love to nuke Tehran
>implying the US wouldn't justify that

Why would Israel "love" to nuke Tehran? Also the US wouldn't justify it if Israel just up and did it for no reason. If anything we would be super fucking pissed that they just massively destabilized the region seemingly for fun. You seem to have a very stereotyped and base view of the world.

Aren't the Israelis murdering Iranian nuclear scientists pre-emptively?  This seems very aggressive to me.  And if they do this, then it doesn't take too much imagination to think that they (the Israelis) would love to nuke Tehran.

Offline Raskolnikov

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #47 on: October 07, 2014, 05:51:12 pm »
Cory is fucking retarded. He can't even articulate his side of the issue correctly or back it up with anything. All he knows is "murkkka good, Russian expansion bad" because bald russians scare him while they literally try to recruit me into their militias
As what sex slave?

Offline Cory

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #48 on: October 07, 2014, 05:52:41 pm »
Aren't the Israelis murdering Iranian nuclear scientists pre-emptively?  This seems very aggressive to me. And if they do this, then it doesn't take too much imagination to think that they (the Israelis) would love to nuke Tehran.

Launching covert intelligence operations to sabotage Iran's nuclear program doesn't parallel to launching a nuclear strike against a major city. The two just don't compare.
Ideology: Social-Democrat

"The voices in my head couldn't agree on whether it was a good idea."
-Greyfox

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #49 on: October 07, 2014, 05:59:15 pm »
Aren't the Israelis murdering Iranian nuclear scientists pre-emptively?  This seems very aggressive to me. And if they do this, then it doesn't take too much imagination to think that they (the Israelis) would love to nuke Tehran.

Launching covert intelligence operations to sabotage Iran's nuclear program doesn't parallel to launching a nuclear strike against a major city. The two just don't compare.

I am not saying that these two things are "comparable" or anything like that.  I am just trying to point out to other people that Israel is a very aggressive nation.  It will go on a murderous campaign against people who for all we know might truly be working on nuclear powers used for peaceful purposes.

Also I kind of think that you are partial towards Israel.  You call their murderous campaign "covert intelligence operations" in an attempt to downplay their wickedness.

Offline Cory

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #50 on: October 07, 2014, 06:07:50 pm »
I am not saying that these two things are "comparable" or anything like that.  I am just trying to point out to other people that Israel is a very aggressive nation.  It will go on a murderous campaign against people who for all we know might truly be working on nuclear powers used for peaceful purposes.

Also I kind of think that you are partial towards Israel.  You call their murderous campaign "covert intelligence operations" in an attempt to downplay their wickedness.

Well you did say that their assignations indicated that they would "love to nuke Tehran".

Also I am by no means partial to Israel, as a matter of fact I resent their expansionist policy in regards to Palestine. I think it's very ironic that the Israeli right thinks Jews are the Chosen People who should expand their living-space to the East and expel the undesirables. Sound familiar?

I just can't stand stupidity and black & white worldviews that reduce everything to something any 12 year old can understand. Real life is much more complicated and nuanced then these types like to make out in their ill-informed "opinions".
Ideology: Social-Democrat

"The voices in my head couldn't agree on whether it was a good idea."
-Greyfox

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #51 on: October 07, 2014, 06:08:45 pm »
Also call me a noob or ignorant, but I have a question for you all.

What does the US gain from having Israel as an ally?  All they seem to do is take money, aid, etc from the US.

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #52 on: October 07, 2014, 06:12:05 pm »
I am not saying that these two things are "comparable" or anything like that.  I am just trying to point out to other people that Israel is a very aggressive nation.  It will go on a murderous campaign against people who for all we know might truly be working on nuclear powers used for peaceful purposes.

Also I kind of think that you are partial towards Israel.  You call their murderous campaign "covert intelligence operations" in an attempt to downplay their wickedness.

Well you did say that their assignations indicated that they would "love to nuke Tehran".

Also I am by no means partial to Israel, as a matter of fact I resent their expansionist policy in regards to Palestine. I think it's very ironic that the Israeli right thinks Jews are the Chosen People who should expand their living-space to the East and expel the undesirables. Sound familiar?

I just can't stand stupidity and black & white worldviews that reduce everything to something any 12 year old can understand. Real life is much more complicated and nuanced then these types like to make out in their ill-informed "opinions".

I see.

Also, I got a question for you.  Do you feel that the Israelis' pre-emptive murders of Iranian nuclear scientists is wrong.

Offline millionsofdeadcats

  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,110
  • fuck you michael myers
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #53 on: October 07, 2014, 06:12:06 pm »
Also call me a noob or ignorant, but I have a question for you all.

What does the US gain from having Israel as an ally?  All they seem to do is take money, aid, etc from the US.

Although I think it works the other way around, I would answer this question thusly:  By having israel as an ally, the US has a 'friend' and a stable base in the middle east.  A 'foothold' in the region, if you will.
quote author=dragqueen slayer link=topic=1184.msg35656#msg35656 date=1412632872]Cory is fucking retarded[/quote

Offline Cory

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #54 on: October 08, 2014, 01:43:42 am »
I see.

Also, I got a question for you.  Do you feel that the Israelis' pre-emptive murders of Iranian nuclear scientists is wrong.

I don't see geo-political actions like as said inherently "right" or "wrong". If I were the leader of Israel I sure as hell wouldn't want Iran jeopardizing my nuclear monopoly in the region. Also if I were Iran's leader I sure as hell wouldn't to live under the Israeli nuclear gun limiting my development as a major power.

Politics is often times grey.
Ideology: Social-Democrat

"The voices in my head couldn't agree on whether it was a good idea."
-Greyfox

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #55 on: October 08, 2014, 01:47:49 am »
I see.

Also, I got a question for you.  Do you feel that the Israelis' pre-emptive murders of Iranian nuclear scientists is wrong.

I don't see geo-political actions like as said inherently "right" or "wrong". If I were the leader of Israel I sure as hell wouldn't want Iran jeopardizing my nuclear monopoly in the region. Also if I were Iran's leader I sure as hell wouldn't to live under the Israeli nuclear gun limiting my development as a major power.

Politics is often times grey.

Murder isn't a "geo-political action", though.

Also, you seem to be saying that in order to achieve supremacy in geo-politics, it is permissible to engage in something as heinous as the murder of innocents.

Offline aldra

  • Arch Disciple
  • ***
  • Posts: 623
  • albrecht drais
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #56 on: October 08, 2014, 02:16:49 am »
I see.

Also, I got a question for you.  Do you feel that the Israelis' pre-emptive murders of Iranian nuclear scientists is wrong.

I don't see geo-political actions like as said inherently "right" or "wrong". If I were the leader of Israel I sure as hell wouldn't want Iran jeopardizing my nuclear monopoly in the region. Also if I were Iran's leader I sure as hell wouldn't to live under the Israeli nuclear gun limiting my development as a major power.

Politics is often times grey.

Murder isn't a "geo-political action", though.

Also, you seem to be saying that in order to achieve supremacy in geo-politics, it is permissible to engage in something as heinous as the murder of innocents.

permissible by who(m)? there's literally no personal responsibility for a country's actions until they're subjugated.

Offline BORSH

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #57 on: October 08, 2014, 02:29:13 am »
http://i.imgur.com/H8QJlHC.jpg

So then there are 15k Russian tanks, along with their entire air force and navy, all bombing ukraine from all sides non stop then?

You said invasion right?

A.) A picture of a Russian soldier giving a kid a cat literally means nothing.

B.) You don't need "15k tanks", or "the entire air force and navy", to invade a country. The Russian goals appear to be more limited then invading the whole country anyways. They just seem to want the East.

Cory is retarded and should be banned immediately due to the info in his signature. He also apparently has no knowledge of how Israel works. America is their puppet, used to push and bully their way around. Why do you think America invaded Iraq and all those other countries, and now ISIS? Because we care about the people of these countries? Get real and look at a fucking map kid. WE'RE CLEARING THE WAY FOR JEWS.

A.) All because America has a close alliance with Israel doesn't make us their "puppet". I know this is probably over your head but politics, especially international relations, is is bit more complicated and nuanced then you seem to think. Both Israel and the United States are strategically valuable to each other, although we do increasingly see the West and Israel drifting apart over Israel's refusal to be any less belligerent. Ultimately the reason we are allies with them is because the Cold War. The Soviets counted heads and cast their lot with the Arabs so we had to support a counterweight.

B.) The USA invaded Iraq in 2003 because the Neo-Conservitaves in Washington wanted to create a "New American Century" by establishing American dominance in the Middle East to secure the flow of oil from the region. It was about Great Power Politics, with Peak Oil coming the USA would be in a dominant position over Russia and China in the decades to come. Obviously this policy backfired horribly and in fact may very well lead to the emergence of Iran as a major dominant player in the Middle East. It wasn't just "because ISRAEL11!!!1". Real life is more complicated then that.

C.) By fighting the Islamic State we aren't really helping Israel any if at all. IS is mostly fighting the main enemies of Israel. That is to say they are mainly undermining the interests of Iran in Iraq and Syria.

It is common lnowledge the American tax payer gives more money to the IDF than Israelis do. If you didn't vote for Obama and have your head full of nigger jew bullshit than maybe you could see the facts for what they are.


Wrong again, I'm beginning to detect a trend.

http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-america-really-spends-on-israels-defense-2012-9

Last week the Jerusalem Post reported that former Israeli Defense Force (IDF) Commander-in-Chief Gabi Ashkenazi told a conference that U.S. taxpayers have contributed more to the Israeli defense budget than Israeli taxpayers in the past three years.

This comment has been passed around everywhere.

Alison Weir of Veterans News Now pointed out it was the first instance of an Israeli leader saying that U.S. taxpayers contribute more money to Israel's defense budget than Israeli taxpayers.

But the claim seemed fishy to us.

Given that U.S. military aid to Israel was $2.775 billion in 2010, $3 billion in 2011, $3.07 billion in 2012 (and $3.15 billion per year from 2013-2018) while Israel's defense budget is around $15 billion, it made us wonder how much Israeli taxpayers contribute and where the other $12 billion non-U.S. aid comes from.

We emailed Shmuel Even, an expert of Israel's defense at the Institute for National Security Studies in Tel Aviv, who told us that Israel's up-to-date defense budget for 2012 is $15 billion, with 70 percent contributed by Israeli taxpayers, 21 percent coming from U.S. aid and 9 percent coming from Defense Ministry income.

That would put the Israeli taxpayer contribution at $10.5 billion, compared to $3.15 billion from the U.S. (Even added that the U.S. aid in 2011 was $3.1 billion and that most of the aid comes in weapons as opposed to cash.)

So was Lt. Gen. Ashkenazi—who served as the IDF supreme commander from 2007 to 2011—simply mistaken? Or is he alluding to something that one of Israel's top researchers doesn't know?

Shmuel Even watched the video of Ashkenazi's speech and said the former IDF chief "said it, but I don't know why."

Even added that Ashkenazi "also said that the U.S. military aid is $3B. So he knows the numbers."

But it's ok, sit back and enjoy the sheet of ignorance you're wearing. Type out some bullshit reply that says nothing and refutes none of the facts I've slapped your fat face with.

It's obvious you are the jackass wrapped in a sheet of your own ignorance and lack of understanding of how the real world functions. Just go back to your conspricary theory echo-chamber where you can play make believe that you are some kind of "enlightened" person and just so much different from all the other kids at school.

Cory is fucking retarded. He can't even articulate his side of the issue correctly or back it up with anything. All he knows is "murkkka good, Russian expansion bad" because bald russians scare him while they literally try to recruit me into their militias

A.) I am probably the only person in this goddamn thread who has backed up any of what I've said.

B.) I highly, highly doubt anyone has tried to recruit you into a rebel militia operating in the Ukraine. You probably couldn't even point to the goddamn place on a map.

You must be trolling.

Compare what Russia is doing in Ukraine to what they did in Georgia. The Ukraine thing is not an invasion.

Offline Cory

  • Adherent
  • *
  • Posts: 85
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #58 on: October 09, 2014, 01:18:52 am »
Murder isn't a "geo-political action", though.

Also, you seem to be saying that in order to achieve supremacy in geo-politics, it is permissible to engage in something as heinous as the murder of innocents.

Unfortunately, murder very well can be a geo-poltical action. Politics is grey, but can often be a very dark shade of grey.

You must be trolling.

Compare what Russia is doing in Ukraine to what they did in Georgia. The Ukraine thing is not an invasion.

Fine I guess just stick your head in the sand and believe everything coming from RT (which, by the way, was created for foreign consumption exclusively which should tell you something right there). I would have an easier time believing the Russians if it wasn't for the fact that literally every single thing they have said about this whole thing has been a bold-faced lie. "There are no Russian troops in Crimea", "Russia isn't supporting the Rebels", "The Ukrainians tried to shoot down Putin's plane" (yeah, right).
Ideology: Social-Democrat

"The voices in my head couldn't agree on whether it was a good idea."
-Greyfox

Offline WAN

  • Devotee
  • **
  • Posts: 119
    • View Profile
Re: Russia Vs Israel
« Reply #59 on: October 09, 2014, 01:30:46 am »
Murder isn't a "geo-political action", though.

Also, you seem to be saying that in order to achieve supremacy in geo-politics, it is permissible to engage in something as heinous as the murder of innocents.

Unfortunately, murder very well can be a geo-poltical action. Politics is grey, but can often be a very dark shade of grey.

you seem to be saying that in order to achieve supremacy in geo-politics, it is permissible to engage in something as heinous as the murder of innocents.