The Sanctuary
Society => News of the World => Topic started by: equanimity on October 11, 2014, 02:44:03 pm
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http://www.npr.org/2014/10/11/355386142/7-students-charged-with-sex-crimes-in-n-j-hazing-incident
Maybe it's morbid of me, but I always wonder exactly what happened when you read these vague reports. There's mention of "sexual penetration". Most of the crimes seem minor, and this hick town is up in arms about football being cancelled for the season. Angry parents insisting that the entire team shouldn't be punished for the actions of 7 kids.
It would be pretty messed up if they didn't cancel for the season, imo. High school football isn't even important, especially when compared to these issues of bullying and sexual abuse. What kind of culture exists here, where it's acceptable behavior to sexually harass and abuse one another if you're part of a sports team?
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The individuals involved in and convicted of sexual assault did something wrong, the team didn't. The innocent should not pay for the crimes of the guilty. This is the basis for a fair and just society.
However if the objective is to punish them all for the 'crime' of being part of a patriarchal, cis-scum, testosterone-fuelled, aggressive and domineering 'alpha' culture that results in victory on the pitch, and probably elsewhere in (later) life, then I'm sure some right-on middle-class beta faggot with an agenda will soon be steam-rolling these 'hicks' into the nearest sexual awareness and gender studies class so that they can be forced to start growing manginas in earnest.
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Obvious troll thread is OBVIOUS....because only a complete moron would think the entire team (and thusly the ENTIRE TOWN) should be punished for the actions of a small few. Way to find another unique way to get negative attention Zek. :roll:
Also, "bullying" and "hazing" are not synonymous terms despite what a bunch of do-gooder bleeding hearts want to spew. The entire essence of hazing, is CONSENSUALLY putting yourself in an uncomfortable situation to join whatever group. You go into it knowing you are going to endure bullshit, there is zero "bullying" going on. Whereas true bullying is people going about their lives minding their own business, and other people or strangers decide to fuck with you with no endgame or reward or camaraderie after it. But of course someone like Zek likes to play the "consumate victim" card any time they are a little squeamish, so its just par for the course.
Quit attaching other cutesy buzzphrases inaccurately to stuff as a feeble attempt to further demonize what actually went on.
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That's the thing though. It's not a punishment for the innocent, but a measure to highlight these issues and get people to open up and discuss the reasons this may have happened. And hopefully the time will also be used to carefully investigate the coaching staff and any parents that may have been involved.
Football can wait a year, but this isn't the sort of thing that should be kept hush hush as the city tries to return to a state of normalcy. This happened, and it happened for a reason. The parents complaining about the football season being cancelled might do better worrying about what their kids are going through as part of this football team and maybe getting them into therapy if it seems appropriate.
And DaGuru, the specifics are being kept confidential to protect the kids involved, but the article did mention that there had been unwanted sexual penetration happening. To me that sounds like rape, and not a case of "boys will be boys".
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That's the thing though. It's not a punishment for the innocent, but a measure to highlight these issues and get people to open up and discuss the reasons this may have happened. And hopefully the time will also be used to carefully investigate the coaching staff and any parents that may have been involved.
So, what did they do?
Discussion can happen regardless.
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That's the thing though. It's not a punishment for the innocent, but a measure to highlight these issues and get people to open up and discuss the reasons this may have happened. And hopefully the time will also be used to carefully investigate the coaching staff and any parents that may have been involved.
Spoken like a true bleeding heart do-gooder. Feel good rhetoric tramples on common sense....all the while logic and reason are removed from the equation.
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lol sayreville...
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What did who do? The innocent? I don't understand what you're asking.
Discussion can always happen, but it often doesn't. And in many cases measures taken to get people being open and honest with one another are helpful in building healthier societies.
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both, bullying and hazing, (not synonyms as DaGuru said) have their place.
yes, I am a straight white male between the ages of 18-24, probably the second-highest demographic for this type of shit...but both of them have positive implications as well.
bullying, especially in 7th-9th grade serves its purpose to prepare people for the mean cold world ahead, granted, I wasn't bullied to the point I wanted to kill myself, it was just normal middle school shenanigans, but now I'm older, its definitely prepared me for life. there is definitely a line that can't be crossed, but in its current state (no-tolerance) its doing more harm than good for high-functioning normal people.
hazing is different, it has its place and its limits. in the story in OP, it sounds like the limits were definitely exceeded. in PA, hazing is defined as-"any action or situation which recklessly or intentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student or which fully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership, in any group or organization, the willingness of an individual to participate in such activity notwithstanding.”
I think hazing fortifies the brotherhood of these organizations, so long as it doesn't get out of hand.
I think the organizations should be up-front about what it involves, so pledges can decide if they want to or not, and also have a bail out clause as well.
I was trying to find the whistle-blower list of hazing they have here at my school, but I can't find it. there was some stupid shit on there I remember.
I think the whole hazing/bullying movement is people who couldn't handle it in school, and are trying to figuratively get back at "butch" or "gary" or whoever bullied them in high school, and that makes them feel all big and powerful inside.
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What did who do? The innocent? I don't understand what you're asking.
You are advocating punishing the innocent (until proven guilty) football players by banning them from playing football. Clearly you think they have done something wrong, because you want them punished for it. I'm asking you what that something is.
Discussion can always happen, but it often doesn't. And in many cases measures taken to get people being open and honest with one another are helpful in building healthier societies.
And your evidence that banning the entire team from playing generates discussion that otherwise wouldn't happen is where, exactly?
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both, bullying and hazing, (not synonyms as DaGuru said) have their place.
yes, I am a straight white male between the ages of 18-24, probably the second-highest demographic for this type of shit...but both of them have positive implications as well.
bullying, especially in 7th-9th grade serves its purpose to prepare people for the mean cold world ahead, granted, I wasn't bullied to the point I wanted to kill myself, it was just normal middle school shenanigans, but now I'm older, its definitely prepared me for life. there is definitely a line that can't be crossed, but in its current state (no-tolerance) its doing more harm than good for high-functioning normal people.
hazing is different, it has its place and its limits. in the story in OP, it sounds like the limits were definitely exceeded. in PA, hazing is defined as-"any action or situation which recklessly or intentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student or which fully destroys or removes public or private property for the purpose of initiation or admission into or affiliation with, or as a condition for continued membership, in any group or organization, the willingness of an individual to participate in such activity notwithstanding.”
I think hazing fortifies the brotherhood of these organizations, so long as it doesn't get out of hand.
I think the organizations should be up-front about what it involves, so pledges can decide if they want to or not, and also have a bail out clause as well.
I was trying to find the whistle-blower list of hazing they have here at my school, but I can't find it. there was some stupid shit on there I remember.
I think the whole hazing/bullying movement is people who couldn't handle it in school, and are trying to figuratively get back at "butch" or "gary" or whoever bullied them in high school, and that makes them feel all big and powerful inside.
Very well said, man.....the whole post from top to bottom. That's the problem with a lot of these idiotic think(?) tanks, and other pacifist groups that can't handle the harsh realities of life. There isn't even ONE finite example where lighting a candle, holding hands and "talking about" things has ever fixed a damn thing in this world. Not one.
Like you said, its more or less just a bunch of people that are weak-minded scaredy cats needing a hug themselves...giving them some false sense of comfort or the idea they've "done something about it" for an hour or two. Yet after their vigil or committee meetings or whatever other worthless nonsense, they still go back to their real lives without any backbone or life skills....constantly looking to play the "victim" card, because they are too damn scared to stand up for themselves without other people's help.
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Kids are often really mean, and yeah to some extent bullying is simply a part of growing up. What harm are the no tolerance policies doing, though? I'm asking. Are kids getting kicked out of school and sent to like military schools?
As far as the public service ads you see on kid's TV, I don't see that being harmful. Teaching kids to stand up for their friends is good and all, but bullying is this strange social phenomenon that's not going anywhere no matter what we tell our kids. The best thing parents can do is teach their children the virtues of compassion, bravery and level-headedness.
What did who do? The innocent? I don't understand what you're asking.
You are advocating punishing the innocent (until proven guilty) football players by banning them from playing football. Clearly you think they have done something wrong, because you want them punished for it. I'm asking you what that something is.
Not punishment. A chance to step back from the situation and carefully evaluate it, as a community. If they all come to the sincere decision that nothing was wrong except in the minds of those 7 boys, then great. That's what you hope for here. An opportunity to talk about these difficult subjects is a lot more important than a single season of high school football, in my opinion.
Some serious shit went down. That community owes it to the victims to sit down and talk about why. If the season had simply continued on, the kids might have even felt alienated or guilty about making waves at all. To shrug and assume it was an isolated incident forever in the past really does those kids a disservice. 7 kids at a minimum were alleged members of the guilty party, and as it was "hazing" it's not a huge jump to wonder if it would still be continuing had the season happened.
Discussion can always happen, but it often doesn't. And in many cases measures taken to get people being open and honest with one another are helpful in building healthier societies.
And your evidence that banning the entire team from playing generates discussion that otherwise wouldn't happen is where, exactly?
In cases such as these, silence from the community and a wish to get back to how things were results in the victims losing their voice. Football not happening is a glaring and obvious change from normal for this community, and it makes them uncomfortable. Sometimes discomfort is what it takes to get the ball of positive change rolling.
But seriously. Several cases of sexual assault involving a large number of the players on a football team is grounds for cancelling the season. For numerous reasons.
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What did who do? The innocent? I don't understand what you're asking.
You are advocating punishing the innocent (until proven guilty) football players by banning them from playing football. Clearly you think they have done something wrong, because you want them punished for it. I'm asking you what that something is.
Not punishment.
Being forced to forfeit an activity is, by definition (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/forfeiture), a penalty or punishment; classic doublethink. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink) It's like beating a child with a stick and telling them 'I'm not hitting you, I'm helping you remember this lesson I'm teaching you'.
It is a sign of mental illness.
A chance to step back from the situation and carefully evaluate it, as a community. If they all come to the sincere decision that nothing was wrong except in the minds of those 7 boys, then great. That's what you hope for here. An opportunity to talk about these difficult subjects is a lot more important than a single season of high school football, in my opinion.
Again, not a shred of evidence to prove this could not have been done if the season continued as normal.
Some serious shit went down. That community owes it to the victims to sit down and talk about why. If the season had simply continued on, the kids might have even felt alienated or guilty about making waves at all. To shrug and assume it was an isolated incident forever in the past really does those kids a disservice. 7 kids at a minimum were alleged members of the guilty party, and as it was "hazing" it's not a huge jump to wonder if it would still be continuing had the season happened.
That is pure speculation.
Discussion can always happen, but it often doesn't. And in many cases measures taken to get people being open and honest with one another are helpful in building healthier societies.
And your evidence that banning the entire team from playing generates discussion that otherwise wouldn't happen is where, exactly?
In cases such as these, silence from the community and a wish to get back to how things were results in the victims losing their voice. Football not happening is a glaring and obvious change from normal for this community, and it makes them uncomfortable. Sometimes discomfort is what it takes to get the ball of positive change rolling.
But seriously. Several cases of sexual assault involving a large number of the players on a football team is grounds for cancelling the season. For numerous reasons.
I asked you for evidence, not an unfounded assertion.
So far you have not demonstrated anything other than a class prejudice towards 'hicks' (I assume by this you mean working class people who like watching football), an aptitude for producing copious quantities of simpering emasculated nonsense and an unhealthy desire to punish those who've done nothing wrong.
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Speculating is all we can do, and in this case it definitely makes sense to cancel football for a season to sort everything out and talk to the kids at these schools. If school officials and parents are speculating that their children might be in danger somehow, then the only sensible action to take is what they ended up doing.
It's only a season of football, and if the season had gone on and more instances of sexual abuse happened (which is not an unthinkable occurrence, obviously), the school board would find itself in a tough spot legally. Not to mention the children who may have been harmed.
Even if you think it's dumb to use this as a measure to get people talking, you have to see that this was a series of very serious cases of sexual abuse involving children and the matter warranted inside and out investigation before allowing the team to continue on. Right? Or maybe I'm just crazy :P
If my kids were on a team and something serious involving several team members happened I'd be very upset if the season were allowed to continue on. Somehow a very unhealthy culture was allowed to form here, and the causes should be found instead of dealing with the symptoms as they appear. Didn't you say something similar, recently? :)
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Speculating is all we can do...
Stopped reading there. Thanks for playing.
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What did I win? :)
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What did I win? :)
:facepalm:
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I don't really watch sports, ever. That being said - there is a difference between "hazing" and "bullying" like others have already pointed out. Continuing on in the vein of what other people have already said, punishing other students who are part of the team and wish to play - but, now cannot play because of the actions of other people is absolutely wrong.
Should the parties responsible be punished for what they did? Absolutely.
Should random people that had no part in it whatsoever be punished? No.
I've never heard of a case where a team member or members broke the law and did something wrong...so every other player had to be punished for it. That makes absolutely no sense. Highschool football may not be important to you. Hell, it isn't even important to me. But, it is important to them, the kids who decided they wanted play. Why should the kids that did nothing wrong be barred from playing a game they probably love and look forward to participating in?
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Why should the kids that did nothing wrong be barred from playing a game they probably love and look forward to participating in?
I've given my stance a few times already. The last longish one speaks to this.
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Not to mention the children who may have been harmed.
No children were involved in any of this, these are HIGH SCHOOLERS. Again, just spewing bullshit and making stuff up to overly dramatize things to further grasp onto the "victim" card.
If my kids were on a team
And how the hell would you even know what your kids are doing? You abandoned them years ago, and have no involvement in their lives. Your bastard spawn could be having their asses probed daily and you wouldn't know a god-damn thing, because you walked out on them for your own selfish and deviant life.
As I said earlier, EVERYTHING you've said here is just moronic bullshit to do nothing more than troll and attention whore. Nobody with any sense at all believes or agrees any of the inane rhetoric you are spewing....you are here only to get the negative attention you seek out to rile people up and waste everyone's time. Keep on trolling and attention whoring you worthless VICTIM, you are only adding more shovelfuls of dirt on your own credibility and the success of this website.
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Why should the kids that did nothing wrong be barred from playing a game they probably love and look forward to participating in?
I've given my stance a few times already. The last longish one speaks to this.
Nothing you said addresses what I said in the slightest. It's also hilarious that you can wax about what you would do if "your kids" were on the team, when you...well, you know - abandoned your children. It's obvious that your outlook is warped and flawed.
"If my kids were on the team, I'd do X Y Z !"
"But...you have kids...and...you abandoned them. You've never given them a single cent towards their care or futures and you never saw them since you walked out the door."
Do you realize how retarded you sound, sitting on a liberal soapbox bleating about what YOU would do if YOU had kids, when you do have children that you already completely and totally neglect.
So, that point is completely moot. LOL!
Now, should you be upset if that happened on the team? Absolutely. Should the people responsible be punished? Absolutely! But, why should EVERYONE ELSE ON THE TEAM, that had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT TRANSPIRED be punished? That makes absolutely no sense. Like, at all. That's akin to let's say...a team of four men robbing a bank, so the cops arrest the four men...and everyone else working in and visiting the bank at that time.
Does that make any sense at all to you, you deluded, tranny-cunt retard? No. Because, you're mentally ill and incapable of seeing things rationally and logically. You're a fucked up idiot with no grasp on reality whatsoever.
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Don't let these two cis-male rape-enabling ^^^ agents of the Patriarchy grind you down Equanimity.
Scream out loudly as you can so that these victims stories are heard!
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
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*adult lesbians
I just saw the moterboat article and had to post
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
obviously chained
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
No, another post references 'motheranddaughter board' so its inb4lock
http://www.intosanctuary.com/index.php?topic=3311.msg42828#msg42828
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
No, another post references 'motheranddaughter board' so its inb4lock
http://www.intosanctuary.com/index.php?topic=3311.msg42828#msg42828
:suspect:
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Back in high school we had this gay gag called a poonjab where you shoved your hand up someones ass.
mmmmmmm
penetration.
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Back in high school we had this gay gag called a poonjab where you shoved your hand up someones ass.
mmmmmmm
penetration.
Were you good at poonjab?
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:suspect:
youre probably unstable yourself, but you havent typed enough text for me to analyze yet
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He's RisiR.
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Back in high school we had this gay gag called a poonjab where you shoved your hand up someones ass.
mmmmmmm
penetration.
Were you good at poonjab?
One of the best. We also had nut taps
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He's RisiR.
ah I could see that
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I can tell some people in this thread are confused by the first page of their IQ test
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Back in high school we had this gay gag called a poonjab where you shoved your hand up someones ass.
mmmmmmm
penetration.
Were you good at poonjab?
One of the best. We also had nut taps
Tell me more about nut taps.
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Back in high school we had this gay gag called a poonjab where you shoved your hand up someones ass.
mmmmmmm
penetration.
Were you good at poonjab?
One of the best. We also had nut taps
Tell me more about nut taps.
It's where you hit the nuts of another friend and thus a war starts.
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Oh yea that. Good times. :tup:
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
No, another post references 'motheranddaughter board' so its inb4lock
http://www.intosanctuary.com/index.php?topic=3311.msg42828#msg42828
:suspect:
so I am wrong in assuming that mother and daughter board is some sort of lesbian pedophilia site?
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News: Bros do borderline homoerotic shit that sometimes have homoerotic consequences when faggots get their feelings hurt, round of IQ tests on me for anyone who gives a shit faggot
:suspect:
can't tell if unstable....or inb4lock
Obvious matter.
No, another post references 'motheranddaughter board' so its inb4lock
http://www.intosanctuary.com/index.php?topic=3311.msg42828#msg42828
:suspect:
so I am wrong in assuming that mother and daughter board is some sort of lesbian pedophilia site?
I'm not an expert on lesbian pedophiliia websites so I don't know.
brb "researching".