This is what the femenazis are mad about this week.

[Σ]

I guess I should ask what the point of your original post was then? Why say:

Why say any of that if you weren't trying to vindicate rapists to some degree? Like so what? Yeah, some women have the audacity to do things while not in a pack, and it's sad commentary that that's considered risky behaviour. But that doesn't make anything about the rape OK, it doesn't mean anyone deserved it.

How does any of what fang says vindicate rapist behavior? How is it wrong to say that it is each individuals responsibility to keep themselves safe? And no the fact that a female puts herself in a situation where she gets raped doesn't mean that rape was okay it simply means that the aforementioned female decided to forgo assurance of her personal safety and is dealing with the consequences. I understand why is isn't right to victim blame but to say "Maybe you should have thought how the males would react" shouldn't exactly be taboo.

Also while it may sound gross the best way to stop someone from raping you isn't even fighting back. Its shitting and or pissing. This is legitimately the number one way to stop a rape. But do any of these women ever take this action during their rapes? Nahhh. They decided to let him have his way and scream about it after. Rather than doing something, even so desperate as shitting yourself, a majority of rape victims more or less let it happen. It just seems weird to me.

[Lanny]

Well that's what I was asking, why even say it if has no normative force in this discussion? What does it matter if a woman does everything or nothing to stop a rape? What does that change? How is it relevant?

It doesn't seem to be relevant at all unless you're trying to say rape victims deserve it somehow.

[Obbe]

I don't think anyone here is saying people deserved to be raped, but that you can avoid being raped by taking precautions.

People don't deserve to be burned by fire.  But if you play with fire, and don't take the proper precautions, you may find yourself burned.

How is it relevant?   I suppose if people were more cautious,  they would be raped less often.  In no way does that imply fault on the victim's behalf. 

[Σ]

Well that's what I was asking, why even say it if has no normative force in this discussion? What does it matter if a woman does everything or nothing to stop a rape? What does that change? How is it relevant?

It doesn't seem to be relevant at all unless you're trying to say rape victims deserve it somehow.

If a woman does everything in her power to stop their own rape it would significantly change the chance that the rape will be successful. How is education of females on how to avoid/prevent/defend against rape not relevant to the conversation?

And nothing I have said implied that rape victim deserves it. I imply that potential rape victims deserve to be aware of how to avoid/prevent/defend against their own potential rape. In no way is that victim blaming and in every way it is empowerment.

[MoaningLisa]

I think the key is drinking within your limits and partying with friends.

personally, I've found that because I'm a scrawny motherfucker, 3 mixed drinks (mixed by me obviously) is enough to have a good time, and keep my wits about me. I can pull it together when campus police comes by, but I'm still loose enough to have fun, and have my inhibitions suppressed to match the "party" atmosphere.

every time I hear about something sketchy happen, anywhere, the girl was partying alone, or with friends who got equally shitfaced. there is no point in having friends with you if they are too drunk to do anything to help.

[Lanny]

So if you're more cautious to prevent a thing from happening... it's less likely to happen? Yup, that really needed to be said, didn't it

[Obbe]

So if you're more cautious to prevent a thing from happening... it's less likely to happen? Yup, that really needed to be said, didn't it

Apparently so.  Anyway, it's more relevant than whatever you're saying now.

[Σ]

So if you're more cautious to prevent a thing from happening... it's less likely to happen? Yup, that really needed to be said, didn't it

But it does need to be said considering how many people get raped. Some people like to think the world is a nice place and bad things wont happen to them. These people need to hear the importance of being cautious because its they who are being raped. These people need to be aware of ways to make themselves safe for real and prevent/stop potential rapes rather than living with a false sense of security.

Just because it makes sense that being cautious prevents bad things happening doesn't mean people know when to be cautious or what to be cautious about. It just means that they understand where caution is helpful rather than choosing to implement cautious behavior.

[aldra]

So if you're more cautious to prevent a thing from happening... it's less likely to happen? Yup, that really needed to be said, didn't it

as a counterpoint to the people who get upset every time it's mentioned, yeah.

if it's bushfire season and peoples' houses have already burned, news outlets will generally warn people to clear up dry leaves and deadwood etc. because it serves as a reminder, even if it does seem obvious. same goes for carjackings, local burglaries and the like.

whenever people are advised to be aware of risks and take precautions regarding rape, however, there's always a chorus of 'victim blaming' and 'it's my choice' and other silly shit. granted, in some cases people have laid responsibility with the victim, but that doesn't mean that you should NOT take precautions - 'slut walk' and the like, for example focus on the fact that people shouldn't be raped and actively decry such precautions. their ideals are out of touch with reality, in that they seem to think rapists will just stop raping if they're noisy enough.

tl;dr: idealism will not un-rape you.

[fanglekai]

So if you're more cautious to prevent a thing from happening... it's less likely to happen? Yup, that really needed to be said, didn't it

as a counterpoint to the people who get upset every time it's mentioned, yeah.

if it's bushfire season and peoples' houses have already burned, news outlets will generally warn people to clear up dry leaves and deadwood etc. because it serves as a reminder, even if it does seem obvious. same goes for carjackings, local burglaries and the like.

whenever people are advised to be aware of risks and take precautions regarding rape, however, there's always a chorus of 'victim blaming' and 'it's my choice' and other silly shit. granted, in some cases people have laid responsibility with the victim, but that doesn't mean that you should NOT take precautions - 'slut walk' and the like, for example focus on the fact that people shouldn't be raped and actively decry such precautions. their ideals are out of touch with reality, in that they seem to think rapists will just stop raping if they're noisy enough.

tl;dr: idealism will not un-rape you.

This. I equate their mentality with things like "i shouldn't wear a seatbelt because i'll never get into a car wreck" or "i don't need to read about food ingredients i'll let the food factories do that for me". Stupid examples but the idea is people wanting to shift responsibility from themselves onto other people. This doesn't make sense in the real world because criminals will always exist unless an orwellian society is implemented. The danger is always present. You cannot trust strangers. You shouldn't give people the opportunity to make you a victim.

Look at the situations where sexual assaults happen on college campuses. Alcohol is a factor 9 times out of 10. I read about an alleged rape on my college campus. The girl was drinking in a frat guy's bedroom and passed out or something. What the fuck was she doing that for? That's like covering yourself in salmon guts and honey and wandering around a bear-infested area during feeding time before hibernation season.

[Lanny]

Look at the situations where sexual assaults happen on college campuses. Alcohol is a factor 9 times out of 10. I read about an alleged rape on my college campus. The girl was drinking in a frat guy's bedroom and passed out or something. What the fuck was she doing that for? That's like covering yourself in salmon guts and honey and wandering around a bear-infested area during feeding time before hibernation season.

Lol, you're more of a man hater than so called "fenenazis" if your impression of the average man is that we're all so devoid of basic morality as to have no more power to resist raping a sleeping woman than a bear has to resist a meal.

[Σ]

Really Lanny? That isn't even in accurate interpretation of the guys post...

[fanglekai]

Look at the situations where sexual assaults happen on college campuses. Alcohol is a factor 9 times out of 10. I read about an alleged rape on my college campus. The girl was drinking in a frat guy's bedroom and passed out or something. What the fuck was she doing that for? That's like covering yourself in salmon guts and honey and wandering around a bear-infested area during feeding time before hibernation season.

Lol, you're more of a man hater than so called "fenenazis" if your impression of the average man is that we're all so devoid of basic morality as to have no more power to resist raping a sleeping woman than a bear has to resist a meal.

You don't understand similes

[Lanny]

No, I understand simile just fine. You probably actually meant "analogy" though, they're different things.

In any case, I don't think anyone has a right to bait bears with food and expect not to be mauled. I do think everyone has the right to pass out in a person's bedroom without being raped.

[aldra]

that's what I was talking about - it's not about rights, it's about risk.

while I wouldn't say it was her fault, I personally would not be getting blackout drunk alone with some guy in his bedroom  if I knew he wanted to have sex with me.

nowhere does that say all men would do it either, just that it's a rather precarious position to be putting yourself in.