Russian tanks roll across ukraine

[Σ]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/07/world/europe/ukraine-unrest/index.html

(CNN) -- Amid rising tensions and fresh violence, Ukrainian authorities on Friday accused Russia of sending dozens of its military vehicles into its territory -- though the Kremlin have knocked down such reports as unfounded and "provocative."

At a briefing Friday, Ukrainian defense spokesman Andriy Lysenko said that 32 tanks, 16 D-30 howitzers and 30 KamAZ heavy trucks crossed past a border checkpoint and headed toward the volatile Luhansk region on Thursday.

Another Ukrainian official, Dmytro Tymchuk, alleged the "armored column" consisted of "a battalion tactical group of the Russian Armed Forces," also according to Ukrinform state news agency.

A NATO military officer said Friday that the alliance -- which doesn't include Ukraine but does include several of its neighbors -- is looking into these reports and knows of an increase in Russian troops and equipment on its eastern border.

"If this crossing into Ukraine is confirmed, it would be further evidence of Russia's aggression and direct involvement in destabilizing Ukraine," the officer said.

Looks like its about that time. Russia has now 32 deployed tanks, 16 howitzers and 30 heavy trucks. Im pretty sure this means they arent letting go.

[Slave of the Beast]

Putin is essentially playing the 'lets go to war to distract the populace from serious domestic economic problems' card. That sabre-rattling Argentine bitch Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner does something similar with the UK and the Falklands. It's a classic tactic that works like a charm on the proles and right-wing media. The fact is that Russia can't afford a pseudo Cold War, let alone a real one.

I watch with interest to see how long Putin can keep all those plates spinning.

[manna]

Look, lets get a few thngs straight, for one, Kiev has been lying ABSOLUTELY pathologically since even before "day one" to the point where western publications stopped quoting thekievpost because theyd look like idiots. It makes Goebbels look like Abe Lincoln. Lyahenko is a pathological liar as well who was a foreman in the junta after Viktor left which had FAR les
s legitimacy than the DNR. Before Poroshenko was elected, legally, Ukraine had no official government, they just pretended they did and hoped no one would call them on it by making it about thtw children at a school the other day. These are the troops that are constripted and openly using cluster bombs. If thats how you treat people you claim to still be members of your country its nothing short of a warcrime. The parellels betwen this and Kosovo are quite apparent the difference is the side NATO is on because thr Oligarchs are taking a western stance on it.

As far as Russias economic situation, of course I agree, Its not good at all, inflation is getting ridiculous, capital flight is rampart and gas is going to stay around 70-80 all next year. What people arent telling you is that just about every Russian hating economist is forced to concede that barring another chernobyl, 2016 is looking like a great year, the nationalizing of agriculture, influx of refugees/crimea will get inflation down to 4 or 5% which hasnt been seen for a while, the deal with China/eurasian union/south america will take form and a new economic bloc will likely take shape. Russua is exerting influence in thr caucasian soviet states again after growing distant over the past two decades. If oil approaches 100 in 2016 Russia will make up for 2014 ( still a slight amount of growth this year) and 2015 and then some. A lot of thr capital flight was "bankster" type oligarchs anyway, not all but enough to mitigate thr damage a bit. The rubles been a mess all year but its still backed by Russias oil and military. Russia has some big projects in the works and a staggeringly lowunemployment rate. If Putin can keep people working and cheering when their borders essentially expand outwarfs over the next few years he"ll be fine and in a decade or two there will be midget sized statues of him all over Russia

[manna]

My phone deleted a large part of that post as anyone who reads it can tell

Basically, Kiev cut off all economic ties to the region and is CONSCRIPTING Ukranians to fight in a "civil" war with CLUSTER BOMBS on what is apparently part of their own country. They've funded far right (read: neo nazi) militias and just dispatched troops to the region. They stopped short of cutting off gas, knowing what the result of that would be. Kiev openly renigged on the sept 5th cease fire and the DNR/LNR had elections the week after Ukraines scandal tainted elections (business as usual in Kiev). Now, according to a known power hungry pathological liar and another known CIA mole oligarch, Russia moved some military into a region that declared itself a new country months ago but isn't internationally recognized because Ukraine wants to absolutely demolish the region.

It would be far crueler to let the DNR/LNR be isolated and invaded by Ukrainian forces/neo nazis again. Sending some Russian tanks over there is basically humanitarian aid at this point, the UN has openly said that it's a humanitarian crisis that Ukraine has been exacerbating by cutting off water and electricity to areas (a future flashpoint will be a power station outside luhansk currently in Ukrainian forces control) it is shelling. It's quite sickening the things you see the Ukrainian forces do on liveleak.com. Then you've got the XPERT KGB civilian iPhone videos of interviews with people who took up arms after Ukraine declared the whole donbass "terrorists" in the spring and started shelling villages indiscriminately.

I digress, Russia has more claim to the region and more altruistic intentions than Kiev does.

Obama has bombed 9 countries in a few years and Putin annexs a region (after a referendum) that's basically Russia and by all accounts wants to be part of Russia, then lends support to people in a region on its border who want closer ties to Moscow after a western backed/funded protest movement (exacerbated by a team of snipers designed to create martyrs and make it look like it was Viktors doing, this is a matter of public record now after phone calls were released and Kiev passed a law forbidding anyone from opening an inquiry into it) ousted the leader for not wanting corporate colonialism at cut rate prices. Region declares itself autonomous in the disarray and literally gets invaded and declared "terrorists" by Kiev who conscript Ukrainians and fund neo nazi groups to fight the separatists.

It's an ugly situation but if you take away the cold war propaganda spewing out of western publications you get a much clearer, factual picture. The truth is, Putin pulled a VERY intelligent move last winter. Two things he didn't anticipate though were how brutally and swiftly Kiev would react and how willing they were to destroy their "own" country and how unintegral Russia is to the Global economy. Now that Libya's back on OPEC's dick and pumping out oil for Europe, it's going to be a problem. The good news is Russia aspired for self sustainability for so long it's almost second nature to the citizens there.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

If you can't tell I find wars involving white people much more relatable/engaging

inb4slavsaren'twhite

[manna]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-07/ukraine-lurches-back-toward-open-war-on-east-fighting.html

"we killed 200 rebels because we're trying to keep a cease fire that we keep claiming to have never broken, lol, oh yeah, we totally killed 200 "rebels" in an area with little to no official ties tot he central government but HEY we're also saying Russia sent some military equipment over in a different region so everyone look over there"

Russia annexing all of Ukraine and Moldova would be the best thing to happen to it tbh

[Flowerz]

My phone deleted a large part of that post as anyone who reads it can tell

Basically, Kiev cut off all economic ties to the region and is CONSCRIPTING Ukranians to fight in a "civil" war with CLUSTER BOMBS on what is apparently part of their own country. They've funded far right (read: neo nazi) militias and just dispatched troops to the region. They stopped short of cutting off gas, knowing what the result of that would be. Kiev openly renigged on the sept 5th cease fire and the DNR/LNR had elections the week after Ukraines scandal tainted elections (business as usual in Kiev). Now, according to a known power hungry pathological liar and another known CIA mole oligarch, Russia moved some military into a region that declared itself a new country months ago but isn't internationally recognized because Ukraine wants to absolutely demolish the region.

It would be far crueler to let the DNR/LNR be isolated and invaded by Ukrainian forces/neo nazis again. Sending some Russian tanks over there is basically humanitarian aid at this point, the UN has openly said that it's a humanitarian crisis that Ukraine has been exacerbating by cutting off water and electricity to areas (a future flashpoint will be a power station outside luhansk currently in Ukrainian forces control) it is shelling. It's quite sickening the things you see the Ukrainian forces do on liveleak.com. Then you've got the XPERT KGB civilian iPhone videos of interviews with people who took up arms after Ukraine declared the whole donbass "terrorists" in the spring and started shelling villages indiscriminately.

I digress, Russia has more claim to the region and more altruistic intentions than Kiev does.

Obama has bombed 9 countries in a few years and Putin annexs a region (after a referendum) that's basically Russia and by all accounts wants to be part of Russia, then lends support to people in a region on its border who want closer ties to Moscow after a western backed/funded protest movement (exacerbated by a team of snipers designed to create martyrs and make it look like it was Viktors doing, this is a matter of public record now after phone calls were released and Kiev passed a law forbidding anyone from opening an inquiry into it) ousted the leader for not wanting corporate colonialism at cut rate prices. Region declares itself autonomous in the disarray and literally gets invaded and declared "terrorists" by Kiev who conscript Ukrainians and fund neo nazi groups to fight the separatists.

It's an ugly situation but if you take away the cold war propaganda spewing out of western publications you get a much clearer, factual picture. The truth is, Putin pulled a VERY intelligent move last winter. Two things he didn't anticipate though were how brutally and swiftly Kiev would react and how willing they were to destroy their "own" country and how unintegral Russia is to the Global economy. Now that Libya's back on OPEC's dick and pumping out oil for Europe, it's going to be a problem. The good news is Russia aspired for self sustainability for so long it's almost second nature to the citizens there.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

If you can't tell I find wars involving white people much more relatable/engaging

inb4slavsaren'twhite

In russia, meth smokes you!

[manna]

*krokodil

[manna]

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/126474

well, looks like it was the Ukranian forces that were shelling schools and killing children over the last few days

 What brave, noble heroes preventing Russian "terrorist" aggression by conscripting young men to fight a "civil" war against a region that's declared separation and they've cut almost all ties with

DONT READ THIS ARTICLE LOOK AT THE UNSUBSTANTIATED REPORTS OF RUSSIAN MILITARY MOVING INTO THE SEPARATED AREA BY NEO NAZI WESTERN PUPPET PATHOLOGICAL LIARS INSTEAD

[Cory]

Basically, Kiev cut off all economic ties to the region and is CONSCRIPTING Ukranians to fight in a "civil" war with CLUSTER BOMBS on what is apparently part of their own country.

You do understand how civil wars work don't you? It's a war. Of course you aren't going to have economic ties with areas controlled by the enemy and of course you are going to conscript soldiers to fight in it. This literally goes for every civil war ever. You are applying an unrealistic standard.

They've funded far right (read: neo nazi) militias and just dispatched troops to the region.

You do realize that the largest and most powerful of these right-wing battalions is the Azov Battalion? They are overwhelmingly consisting of Russian-speaking ethnics from Eastern Ukraine. Your implication of genocidal intentions doesn't hold merit. And of course Ukraine would "dispatch troops to the region", it's a fucking war zone.

They stopped short of cutting off gas, knowing what the result of that would be. Kiev openly renigged on the sept 5th cease fire and the DNR/LNR had elections the week after Ukraines scandal tainted elections (business as usual in Kiev).

Citation for Ukrainian forces reneging on the cease fire? Citation for elections in Ukraine being "tainted"? You do realize that the cease-fire consisted of basically "Ukraine gives Russia (I mean "separatists") everything they want"?

Now, according to a known power hungry pathological liar and another known CIA mole oligarch, Russia moved some military into a region that declared itself a new country months ago but isn't internationally recognized because Ukraine wants to absolutely demolish the region.

Citation? Also it doesn't matter if an area declares itself a new country. Any rebel movement can do that. And it isn't internationally recognized because it's an illegitimate "government" obviously started by Russian intelligence to undermine Ukraine for their Eurasian Union.

It would be far crueler to let the DNR/LNR be isolated and invaded by Ukrainian forces/neo nazis again. Sending some Russian tanks over there is basically humanitarian aid at this point, the UN has openly said that it's a humanitarian crisis that Ukraine has been exacerbating by cutting off water and electricity to areas (a future flashpoint will be a power station outside luhansk currently in Ukrainian forces control) it is shelling.

This is just ridiculous conjecture. Also, in war you tend to cut off resources to areas controlled by the enemy. Stop making up post-facto unrealistic standards that you would never hold anyone else to. At least you admit Russian involvement.

It's quite sickening the things you see the Ukrainian forces do on liveleak.com. Then you've got the XPERT KGB civilian iPhone videos of interviews with people who took up arms after Ukraine declared the whole donbass "terrorists" in the spring and started shelling villages indiscriminately.

Citation for any of this? Keep in mind Russian outlets have been caught circulating pictures from Bosnia in the 1990's as "evidence" of Ukrainian brutality.

I digress, Russia has more claim to the region and more altruistic intentions than Kiev does.

This is just asinine. You really think for a second that Putin gives two shits about "the people" of Donbass and Crimea? "Kiev" is trying to defend their country from a stealth invasion by Russia.

Obama has bombed 9 countries in a few years and Putin annexs a region (after a referendum) that's basically Russia and by all accounts wants to be part of Russia, then lends support to people in a region on its border who want closer ties to Moscow after a western backed/funded protest movement (exacerbated by a team of snipers designed to create martyrs and make it look like it was Viktors doing, this is a matter of public record now after phone calls were released and Kiev passed a law forbidding anyone from opening an inquiry into it) ousted the leader for not wanting corporate colonialism at cut rate prices. Region declares itself autonomous in the disarray and literally gets invaded and declared "terrorists" by Kiev who conscript Ukrainians and fund neo nazi groups to fight the separatists.

 

A.) Obama's foreign policy action are a non sequitur. You're basically saying because America is involved militarily in other nations it automatically makes it okay for Russia to get involved in Ukraine. That's a fallacy.

B.) Citation fucking needed for the "sniper team" nonsense.

C.) The revolution happened because the incumbent President campaigned on closer relations to the EU and then turned coat at the last second and wanted to accept a customs union and closer ties with Russia.

It's an ugly situation but if you take away the cold war propaganda spewing out of western publications you get a much clearer, factual picture. The truth is, Putin pulled a VERY intelligent move last winter. Two things he didn't anticipate though were how brutally and swiftly Kiev would react and how willing they were to destroy their "own" country and how unintegral Russia is to the Global economy. Now that Libya's back on OPEC's dick and pumping out oil for Europe, it's going to be a problem. The good news is Russia aspired for self sustainability for so long it's almost second nature to the citizens there.

Oh there's Cold War propaganda alright, but it's coming squarely from Moscow and their RT news network. Putin's regime is stirring up hatred of intellectuals, gays, journalists and anyone else deemed "undesirable" by the Russian right. Smart people are bailing out of Russia left and right. Can't you see how similar this situation is to Czechoslovakia in 1938? "Ethnic strife" happens in border region, major power then intervenes to "protect" them. Throw in the ethnic nationalism and personality cult of the Putin regime and the parallels become more and more clear.

[manna]

HAHA you dirty clueless little faggot, I saw you lurking this thread after I posted and didn't respond, only waiting until I was banned you dumb pathetic first year poli sci retard. You fear Russian expansion like a schoolgirl under a desk during a bomb drill in the 1970s and are half as well informed as said 11 year old girl in 1972 with twice the sex appeal you supple little faggot

of course you are going to conscript soldiers to fight in it. This literally goes for every civil war ever. You are applying an unrealistic standard.

Really? I don't think you know what the word "literally" means. Hmm, Russia managed to avoid conscripting when a region MUCH bigger than the donbass, equipped with actual terrorist suicide bombers, declared sovereignty. "Applying an unrealistic standard" holy fucking shit are you ever a butthurt fucking retard. Pretty sure the only countries in the Arab Spring uprising who used conscripted troops to kill their own citizens were Egypt and Syria where conscription was already in place. So not only is that not even close to true, it can't even be backed up with recent, isolated examples. You're either lying or absolutely retarded. Your post starts off literally (correct use, take note) making things up.

You do realize that the largest and most powerful of these right-wing battalions is the Azov Battalion? They are overwhelmingly consisting of Russian-speaking ethnics from Eastern Ukraine. Your implication of genocidal intentions doesn't hold merit. And of course Ukraine would "dispatch troops to the region", it's a fucking war zone.

"wtf is the right sector?"

What the fuck is even your point here? The Azov battalion are hardline nazis and criminals that Ukraine pretty much gave Mariupol to after they successfully routed the separatists earlier in the year. They absolutely loathe chechens, considering them non white scum, use nazi symbolism and talk a lot about racial purity. The good news is that even though they're basically nazi's hired by billionaires, they're growing tired of Kievs shit and promise to turn their guns on them if and when things don't work out, which becoming the EU's bitch likely won't. There was literally (proper use!) no point to you typing this.

Citation for Ukrainian forces reneging on the cease fire? Citation for elections in Ukraine being "tainted"? You do realize that the cease-fire consisted of basically "Ukraine gives Russia (I mean "separatists") everything they want"?

What the fuck? Are you actually retarded? Why do you bother typing this shit? Are you desperately trying to prove you have a clue what you're talking about or are you just so fucking fearful of Russia you can't help it. You will not find an article outside of the Kiev post that doesn't say "the cease fire has been broken repeatedly since sept 5th by both sides." I'm not going to google "ukraine" for some clueless child.

Herp deep, icwutudidthar, you insinuated it's all Russia's doing and that really makes me want to ask you what your IQ is and whether you think watching CNN while drinking DXM has resulted in brain damage.

"everything they want"

Once again, your IQ,

Jesus christ, you're just spouting goofy clueless idiocy nobody with a clue is claiming.

Here's a few articles about voting scandals from the election, in a country that's basically the fraud capital of the world. There has likely never been a wholly legitimate election there and credit card companies won't process online orders from Ukraine, even before the conflict. Couldn't find the one I read a week ago but didn't search for it specifically. Don't forget about how a few weeks before the election the "party of regions," loyal to Yanokovitch was made illegal (do you need me to google this for you too?) and the right sector tossing dozens of politicians in trash cans.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/scandal-erupts-over-alleged-voting-fraud-at-kharkiv-hospitals-369520.html
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-elections-vote-fraud-euromaidan/26654304.html
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2014/10/28/msm-misinformation-on-ukraine-s-parliame
http://www.cvu.org.ua/eng/nodes/view/type:news/slug:gdhmdgjm

Hey, while you're at it, here's some stuff about cluster bombs which is totally justifiable because it's ttly wartime so child soldiers, widespread human rights abuses and purposely harming civilians is ttly justifiable you goofy retarded puppet

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/cluster-bombs-ukraine-human-rights-watch
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29702522
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

totally justifiable to use during a "cease fire" on citizens of a country you still claim to represent.

Hey Cory,

you are dumb

Citation? Also it doesn't matter if an area declares itself a new country. Any rebel movement can do that. And it isn't internationally recognized because it's an illegitimate "government" obviously started by Russian intelligence to undermine Ukraine for their Eurasian Union.

http://scgnews.com/leaked-documents-ukraines-new-president-works-for-the-us-state-department

Herp fucking deep, the chocolate faggot being a CIA mole is old news but it clearly takes you months to process things anyway

Seriously, Cory, are you actually retarded? Why do you even bother typing ridiculous shit like this? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about so why bother? You are fucking dumb Cory, like painfully so, it's like a child read a reprint from "the associated press" in their local paper then wrote about it for their social studies class. Tbh, most of what you type isn't worth addressing but I feel it'd do you some good to do some reading of actual facts.

Obviously started by Russian intelligence to undermine Ukraine for their Eurasian union

I'm just gonna leave this quote here in case you ever try to insinuate you have an IQ over 65.

This is just ridiculous conjecture. Also, in war you tend to cut off resources to areas controlled by the enemy. Stop making up post-facto unrealistic standards that you would never hold anyone else to. At least you admit Russian involvement.

So you admit that the whole Donetsk region is "the enemy" to kiev and anyone harbouring pro russian sentiments deserves to be treated as an enemy combatant? Wait, so if this is a "civil war" and Ukraine is treating all civilians in the Donetsk region (inb4kievhasneverkilledanyciviliansonpurposebecauseCNNsaidso as enemy combatants. Not even Al-Assad cut off ties so strongly to regions, especially not ones it was supposed to acknowledge and give special status to under a protocol. I bet you're so fucking stupid you're attempting to insinuate "hero derp it's all really Russian spies running east Ukraine." I won't even ask you for citations as we both know you have none.

Citation for any of this? Keep in mind Russian outlets have been caught circulating pictures from Bosnia in the 1990's as "evidence" of Ukrainian brutality.

liveleak.com and click on "ukraine" up at the top, kid, you expect me to do simple things for you? While you're at it, google "Geoffry Pyatt." Keep in mind the "I am Ukrainian" viral video was exposed as western propaganda as well as just about everything coming out of Kiev. Denying using cluster bombs, denying having anything to do with Odessa, denying losing territory, denying ever harming civilians until recently the list goes on and on. They've also "declared" and whole region of the country "terrorists" and shelled villages indiscriminately because people had a vote and declared autonomy. Kiev is never getting Eastern Ukraine back, lol, get over it faggot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxyISsA0Oh0

You are also confused and stupid, as usual

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/24/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-kosovo-idUSBREA2N0SC20140324

"Keep in mind" clueless american children have been caught misrepresenting news articles from earlier in the year to try to cast conjecture on something entirely different and irrelevant.

This is just asinine. You really think for a second that Putin gives two shits about "the people" of Donbass and Crimea? "Kiev" is trying to defend their country from a stealth invasion by Russia.

Herp derp IQ once again. You really think Kiev gives two shits about "the people" of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea (having proven for decades they don't) beyond using it as an industrial sector? Putin is a Russian nationalist, I don't think anyone is implying he cares less about the region than Kiev does. He's accepted relentless, hardline economic sanctions and risked isolation from the rest of the world. But he doesn't care about the people there, it would just give him a micro boner to see Russias borders pushed slightly westward, that's it. Those hundreds of aid trucks sent to Luhansk and Donetsk after Kiev cut off water and power were full of AK's and potatoes to only give to people who swore allegiance to the great midget bear. You are fucking dumb, Cory.

B.) Citation fucking needed for the "sniper team" nonsense.

Are you just hearing about the maidan snipers or something?

http://rt.com/news/195004-ukraine-maidan-sniper-investigation/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-killings-probe-special-report-idUSKCN0HZ0UH20141010?irpc=932

http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

inb4rt=russki shill even though the audio tape is right there

C.) The revolution happened because the incumbent President campaigned on closer relations to the EU and then turned coat at the last second and wanted to accept a customs union and closer ties with Russia.

your citation: CNN or some other joke of a publication

Literally (proper use) everything you've typed has been what a 45 year old housewife would glean from watching fox news for an hour. You've done absolutely no research of your own and it definitely shows, kid. Everyone knew which way Yanokovich was going to go for a while, and no one could blame him for it. Turning to the EU is a serious mistake by all accounts (You have no idea what that deal even entailed do you?) Sure, he was corrupt but probably no less so than every other Oligarch running the country. The EU/West pumped money into the protest movement, funding it and serving up propaganda on a hot plate. When they realized some faggots lighting candles in a square wasn't going to work, the people who wanted EU membership (which Ukraine doesn't even technically have) funded some snipers to make martyrs out of protestors and police alike to justify violence and give the movement more of an urgency, which was ultimately the movements success. Now Ukraine is divided and a breakaway region will likely serve as a buffer. More and more parts of the east are getting tired of seeing a different team of nazi funding oligarchs fuck shit up which is playing to the separatists (I mean Russians LOL cwutididthar? Kill yourself you pathetic faggot)  favour more than anything, proving it was about Russian identity and pro russian sentiments more than anything. None of the Maidan protestors had any idea what the EU deal entailed and if they did, they likely wouldn't have supported it, it just seemed like "something different." The orange revolution was about Oligarchs and now the Oligarchs are firmly back in power and now its about something else and less important for ensuring a positive future for western Ukraine. Ukraine is a shithole, people just want something different. Crimea wanted to become part of Russia because they haven't gotten fuck all (wait, there's no war going on in Crimea, why did Ukraine immediately sever all ties with it?) since the fall of the Soviet Union, so they wanted back in with Russia, where they always should have been.

Nobody cares less about the Ukrainian people than the west. The EU doesn't see it as anything more than "Europes breadbasket" (their words) and Merkel sees how Putins brand of Russian nationalism is at odds with the EU's welfare state. Basically, a socioeconomic issue became a "omg Russia!" one because Oligarchs were placed firmly back in power and western idiots like you are too stupid to see it for what it actually is.


 

Oh there's Cold War propaganda alright, but it's coming squarely from Moscow and their RT news network. Putin's regime is stirring up hatred of intellectuals, gays, journalists and anyone else deemed "undesirable" by the Russian right. Smart people are bailing out of Russia left and right. Can't you see how similar this situation is to Czechoslovakia in 1938? "Ethnic strife" happens in border region, major power then intervenes to "protect" them. Throw in the ethnic nationalism and personality cult of the Putin regime and the parallels become more and more clear.

This is so fucking facepalm worthy I'm not even going to address it, just quoting it so you re-read it and face palm yourself into self help book or something. This is one of the dumbest paragraphs I've ever read about anything to do with politics. It wouldn't even fly on /pol/

So are you a  stupid clueless kid or a lying shill? If you think an illegal coup followed by an illegal government brought on by identity and ideological issues would have no effect on his largest voting bloc who only wanted to declare autonomy (during a time when there was no legal government) because some FSB agents told them to I'm sorry, your IQ is literally (!) dead. Objectively, you're pretty dumb Cory.

inb4shillsbargain
inb4neckbeardedwiki
inb40replies

I could literally get a peer reviewed article published on the conflict and you just spew cold war propaganda because you're dumb enough to think western propaganda holds weight.

I'm literally wearing an adidas tracksuit right now. Fuck wit me. Maybe your laughable propaganda inspired rhetoric might fly on pussyriot.fem but not with anyone with an idea of what they're talking about

[manna]

ITT: I call Cory a stupid lying little faggot then provide empirical evidence proving this to be a factually accurate assessment of him

[Cory]

So much nonsense, so little time. I will respond to this when I get back from work tonight.

[Umbrella Corp]

So much nonsense, so little time. I will respond to this when I get back from work tonight.

[Cory]

Well I usually don't set aside time to deal with people with the debating style and maturity of a 12 year old on Call of Duty but here we go.

HAHA you dirty clueless little faggot, I saw you lurking this thread after I posted and didn't respond, only waiting until I was banned you dumb pathetic first year poli sci retard. You fear Russian expansion like a schoolgirl under a desk during a bomb drill in the 1970s and are half as well informed as said 11 year old girl in 1972 with twice the sex appeal you supple little faggot

I don't follow the personal drama of this forum enough to know when anyone is banned or not. I don't "fear" anything from Russia, I'm just calling out their blatant bullshit spread by useful idiots like yourself.

Really? I don't think you know what the word "literally" means. Hmm, Russia managed to avoid conscripting when a region MUCH bigger than the donbass, equipped with actual terrorist suicide bombers, declared sovereignty.

A.) I used the world "literally" properly.

B.) Russia didn't have to conscript in the Chechen wars because Russia has a much larger and more powerful standing army then Ukraine. You need to gain some perspective before you spout fallacious examples to support your points.

C.) Chechnya is not "much bigger" then the Donets Basin. Learn to read a map.

"Applying an unrealistic standard" holy fucking shit are you ever a butthurt fucking retard. Pretty sure the only countries in the Arab Spring uprising who used conscripted troops to kill their own citizens were Egypt and Syria where conscription was already in place. So not only is that not even close to true, it can't even be backed up with recent, isolated examples. You're either lying or absolutely retarded. Your post starts off literally (correct use, take note) making things up.

Syria, Libya, and Yemen were the only countries in the Arab Spring that had what can be described as real Civil Wars. All three of those armies used conscription to fight their rebels. So there you are, wrong again.

"wtf is the right sector?"

I'm assuming you are trying to imply that the Right Sector is somehow a major player in Ukrainian politics. The recent election results don't back that up at all. The real power of the far-right has been vastly overstated.

What the fuck is even your point here? The Azov battalion are hardline nazis and criminals that Ukraine pretty much gave Mariupol to after they successfully routed the separatists earlier in the year. They absolutely loathe chechens, considering them non white scum, use nazi symbolism and talk a lot about racial purity. The good news is that even though they're basically nazi's hired by billionaires, they're growing tired of Kievs shit and promise to turn their guns on them if and when things don't work out, which becoming the EU's bitch likely won't. There was literally (proper use!) no point to you typing this.

Yes of course the Azov Battalion is a right-wing Naziesque group, but that doesn't mean they want to "exterminate Russians" like Russian media says. They are ethnic Russians. Also they power doesn't even come close to the conventional Ukrainian military so the idea of them turning on them is nonsense.

My point is that they are fringe factions whose power and influence is being dramatically overstated.

What the fuck? Are you actually retarded? Why do you bother typing this shit? Are you desperately trying to prove you have a clue what you're talking about or are you just so fucking fearful of Russia you can't help it. You will not find an article outside of the Kiev post that doesn't say "the cease fire has been broken repeatedly since sept 5th by both sides." I'm not going to google "ukraine" for some clueless child.

Here is what I'm talking about you awful moron: It's the Minsk Protocol, and it's basically a huge giveaway to Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_Protocol

The protocol of the Minsk Agreement consists of twelve points:[6]

    -Ensure an immediate bilateral ceasefire.
    -Ensure the monitoring and verification by the OSCE of the ceasefire.
    -A decentralisation of power, including through the adoption of the law of Ukraine "about local government provisional arrangements in some areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts" (law on the special status).
    -Ensure the permanent monitoring of the Ukrainian-Russian border and verification by the OSCE with the creation of security zones in the border regions of Ukraine and the Russian Federation.
    -To immediately release all hostages and illegally detained persons.
   - A law on preventing the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that have taken place in some areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.
    -Continue the inclusive national dialogue.
    -To take measures to improve the humanitarian situation in Donbass.
   - Ensure early local elections in accordance with the law of Ukraine "about local government provisional arrangements in some areas of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts" (law on the special status).
    -Withdraw the illegal armed groups, military equipment, as well as fighters and mercenaries from Ukraine.
    -To adopt the program of economic recovery and reconstruction of Donbass region.
    -To provide personal security for the participants in the consultations.

Here are the key points:

-To pull heavy weaponry 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) back on each side of the line of contact, creating a 30-kilometre (19 mi) buffer zone
    -To ban offensive operations
    -To ban flights by combat aircraft over the security zone
    -to withdraw all foreign mercenaries from the conflict zone
    -To set up an OSCE mission to monitor implementation of Minsk Protocol

Seems legit, but here's the thing: The Ukrainian government forces are the only ones with combat aircraft, so the first bolded point is a huge concession from Kiev in the guise of a "multilateral cease fire". But the second bolded point seems like concession from the Rebels at last, but wait, "there aren't any Russian forces in Donbass" so it's still nothing.

It's no wonder the damn thing didn't last. It was practically a unilateral surrender to Russia from Ukraine. Also you never actually cited that it was the Ukraine who broke it first, and I'm guessing you have no serious sources backing you up judging by your defensive attitude.

Herp deep, icwutudidthar, you insinuated it's all Russia's doing and that really makes me want to ask you what your IQ is and whether you think watching CNN while drinking DXM has resulted in brain damage.

What the nig are you going about. Are you sure you aren't retarded?

Here's a few articles about voting scandals from the election, in a country that's basically the fraud capital of the world. There has likely never been a wholly legitimate election there and credit card companies won't process online orders from Ukraine, even before the conflict. Couldn't find the one I read a week ago but didn't search for it specifically. Don't forget about how a few weeks before the election the "party of regions," loyal to Yanokovitch was made illegal (do you need me to google this for you too?) and the right sector tossing dozens of politicians in trash cans.

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/scandal-erupts-over-alleged-voting-fraud-at-kharkiv-hospitals-369520.html
http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-elections-vote-fraud-euromaidan/26654304.html
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2014/10/28/msm-misinformation-on-ukraine-s-parliame
http://www.cvu.org.ua/eng/nodes/view/type:news/slug:gdhmdgjm

The only half-decent source you provided was the last link and it disagrees with you:

Voting on election day was generally conducted in accordance with the law and international standards.

However, CVU’s official observers reported a number of problems related to the organization of the voting process and preparation for its implementation.

Similarly to the presidential election in May 2014, many parties and candidates have broken the law forbidding campaigning on election day and the day preceeding. In particular, last-minute outdoor political advertising appeared in many regions, most often associated with "Batkivschyna," Petro Poroshenko Bloc, and the Radical Party.

Voters generally were able to make an informed choice on election day. At the same time, the possibility of such a choice was complicated by the lack of information posters of candidates and parties at many stations, as well as non-transparent financing of election campaigns. Before election day, the CEC published on its website the interim financial statements for only 2 of the 29 parties, while the financial reports of candidates in single-mandate constituencies were available for less than half of the constituencies.

Among the most common problems and irregularities in the organization of voting: frequent changes in polling stations and DECs, made on the last day before the election and leading to misunderstandings among members of the preparatory commission meeting; no posters on many stations; cases of vote-buying and organizing so-called "carousel voting"; cases of mass transportation of voters to the polls; interference with the work of district and precinct election commissions; wrongful stamping of "Removed" on some ballots, cases of obstruction of official observers, and others.

However, the number of violations of election law in the organization of voting process on October 26, 2014 were significantly lower than in the previous parliamentary elections of 2012. Many violations were related to the fact that the elections were held according to the mixed electoral system, which opens the door to abuse by candidates in single-member constituencies. The introduction of the latest amendments to the Criminal Code of Ukraine and the upcoming transition to a proportional electoral system with voting for "open lists" of candidates will significantly reduce the number of violations of election law not only on election day, but also in preparation for its conduct.

Despite limited human resources, law enforcement authorities properly maintained law and order at polling stations and properly responded to violations of election laws during election day. Cases of bribery of voters, of "carousel voting", of unauthorized interference with the work of the "Vybory" computer analytical program in one of the districts of Kiev should be properly investigated and perpetrators should be brought to justice under recent amendments to the Criminal Code of Ukraine.

In view of the overall situation in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions, it can be argued that voting in the Donbas (in areas controlled by the Ukrainian government, which conducted the vote) was duly secured, although not unproblematic. Some problems occurred at the stage of processing protocols of vote counting by the polling stations (DEC #60 paused its work because of attacks by the separatists, there were problems with the admission of observers to do their duty in DEC # 50, etc.)

In general, vote counting, the transportation of election documents, and tabulation were conducted with no significant violations. The main problems at this stage were incorrect drafting of the reports of the vote count at the polling stations, resulting in the need to provide corrected protocols and traditionally long queues to submit the election documents at the DECs. In some districts, cases of empty signed protocols and transportation of election documents to the DEC with polling station seals were observed.

Read your own fucking sources.

Hey, while you're at it, here's some stuff about cluster bombs which is totally justifiable because it's ttly wartime so child soldiers, widespread human rights abuses and purposely harming civilians is ttly justifiable you goofy retarded puppet

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/21/cluster-bombs-ukraine-human-rights-watch
http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29702522
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/world/ukraine-used-cluster-bombs-report-charges.html

totally justifiable to use during a "cease fire" on citizens of a country you still claim to represent.

 

A.) You sources state that both sides have probably been using cluster munitions.

B.) Yeah, they should cut it out. But that isn't enough to make me support the other side.

C.) Do you have any evidence that Ukraine is deliberately using them against civilians?

http://scgnews.com/leaked-documents-ukraines-new-president-works-for-the-us-state-department

Herp fucking deep, the chocolate faggot being a CIA mole is old news but it clearly takes you months to process things anyway

Seriously, Cory, are you actually retarded? Why do you even bother typing ridiculous shit like this? You clearly have no idea what you're talking about so why bother? You are fucking dumb Cory, like painfully so, it's like a child read a reprint from "the associated press" in their local paper then wrote about it for their social studies class. Tbh, most of what you type isn't worth addressing but I feel it'd do you some good to do some reading of actual facts.

All the actual cable (ignored the nonsense Oped source you originally cited) was the Poroshenko gossiped with them about Ukrainian politics, and didn't even mention anything secret. Again, stop being sensationalist.

Part 2:

[Cory]

Obviously started by Russian intelligence to undermine Ukraine for their Eurasian union

I'm just gonna leave this quote here in case you ever try to insinuate you have an IQ over 65.

Do you even know what the Eurasian Union is? Of course not. It's all lined up in The Foundations of GeoPolitics, which is currently used as a textbook in Russian military academies and is popular in influential circles. Tell me if any of this rings a bell in you limited mind:

The book declares that "the battle for the world rule of [ethnic] Russians" has not ended and Russia remains "the staging area of a new anti-bourgeois, anti-American revolution." The Eurasian Empire will be constructed "on the fundamental principle of the common enemy: the rejection of Atlanticism, strategic control of the USA, and the refusal to allow liberal values to dominate us."[1]

Military operations play relatively little role. The textbook believes in a sophisticated program of subversion, destabilization, and disinformation spearheaded by the Russian special services. The operations should be assisted by a tough, hard-headed utilization of Russia's gas, oil, and natural resources to bully and pressure other countries.[1]

The book states that "the maximum task [of the future] is the 'Finlandization' of all of Europe".[1]

In Europe:

    -Germany should be offered the de facto political dominance over most Protestant and Catholic states located within Central and Eastern Europe. Kaliningrad oblast could be given back to Germany. The book uses the term a "Moscow-Berlin axis".[1]
    -France should be encouraged to form a "Franco-German bloc" with Germany. Both countries have a "firm anti-Atlanticist tradition".[1]
    -United Kingdom should be cut off from Europe.[1]
    -Finland should be absorbed into Russia. Southern Finland will be combined with the Republic of Karelia and northern Finland will be "donated to Murmansk Oblast".[1]
    -Estonia should be given to Germany's sphere of influence.[1]
    -Latvia and Lithuania should be given a "special status" in the Eurasian-Russian sphere.[1]
    -Poland should be granted a "special status" in the Eurasian sphere.[1]
    -Romania, Macedonia, "Serbian Bosnia" and Greece – "orthodox collectivist East" – will unite with the "Moscow the Third Rome" and reject the "rational-individualistic West".[1]
    -Ukraine should be annexed by Russia because "Ukraine as an independent state with certain territorial ambitions represents an enormous danger for all of Eurasia and, without resolving the Ukrainian problem, it is in general senseless to speak about continental politics". Ukraine should not be allowed to remain independent, unless it is cordon sanitaire, which would be inadmissible.[1]

In the Middle East and Central Asia:

    -The book stresses the "continental Russian-Islamic alliance" which lies "at the foundation of anti-Atlanticist strategy". The alliance is based on the "traditional character of Russian and Islamic civilization".
    -Iran is a key ally. The book uses the term "Moscow-Tehran axis".[1]
    -Armenia has a special role and will serve as a "strategic base" and it is necessary to create "the [subsidiary] axis Moscow-Erevan-Teheran". Armenians "are an Aryan people … [like] the Iranians and the Kurds".[1]
    -Azerbaijan could be "split up" or given to Iran.[1]
    -Georgia should be dismembered. Abkhazia and "United Ossetia" (which includes Georgia's South Ossetia) will be incorporated into Russia. Georgia's independent policies are unacceptable.[1]
    -Russia needs to create "geopolitical shocks" within Turkey. These can be achieved by employing Kurds, Armenians and other minorities.[1]
    -The book regards the Caucasus as a Russian territory, including "the eastern and northern shores of the Caspian (the territories of Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan)" and Central Asia (mentioning Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kirghistan and Tajikistan).[1]

In Asia:

    -China, which represents a danger to Russia, "must, to the maximum degree possible, be dismantled".[2] Russia should offer China help "in a southern direction – Indochina (except Vietnam), the Philippines, Indonesia, Australia".[1]
    -Russia should manipulate Japanese politics by offering the Kuril Islands to Japan and provoking anti-Americanism.[1]
    -Mongolia should be absorbed into Eurasia-Russia.[1]

The book emphasizes that Russia must spread Anti-Americanism everywhere: "the main 'scapegoat' will be precisely the U.S."

In the United States:

-Russia should use its special forces within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism. For instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

See that last part about America. That's you. The useful idiot.

This is just ridiculous conjecture. Also, in war you tend to cut off resources to areas controlled by the enemy. Stop making up post-facto unrealistic standards that you would never hold anyone else to. At least you admit Russian involvement.

So you admit that the whole Donetsk region is "the enemy" to kiev and anyone harbouring pro russian sentiments deserves to be treated as an enemy combatant? Wait, so if this is a "civil war" and Ukraine is treating all civilians in the Donetsk region (inb4kievhasneverkilledanyciviliansonpurposebecauseCNNsaidso as enemy combatants.

No, that's not what I said. Can you even read? I said "controlled by" you moron.

Not even Al-Assad cut off ties so strongly to regions, especially not ones it was supposed to acknowledge and give special status to under a protocol.

I'm calling bullshit on this.

liveleak.com and click on "ukraine" up at the top, kid, you expect me to do simple things for you?

So in other words no? That's what I thought.

While you're at it, google "Geoffry Pyatt." Keep in mind the "I am Ukrainian" viral video was exposed as western propaganda as well as just about everything coming out of Kiev. Denying using cluster bombs, denying having anything to do with Odessa, denying losing territory, denying ever harming civilians until recently the list goes on and on. They've also "declared" and whole region of the country "terrorists" and shelled villages indiscriminately because people had a vote and declared autonomy. Kiev is never getting Eastern Ukraine back, lol, get over it faggot.

A.) I'm calling bullshit on the government declaring the entirety of people living in the region terrorists.

B.) We're actually in agreement on the Russians keeping Eastern Ukraine. The Russian Imperialists have a grand agenda and they aren't about to let the Ukrainians get in the way.

Herp derp IQ once again. You really think Kiev gives two shits about "the people" of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea (having proven for decades they don't) beyond using it as an industrial sector? Putin is a Russian nationalist, I don't think anyone is implying he cares less about the region than Kiev does. He's accepted relentless, hardline economic sanctions and risked isolation from the rest of the world. But he doesn't care about the people there, it would just give him a micro boner to see Russias borders pushed slightly westward, that's it. Those hundreds of aid trucks sent to Luhansk and Donetsk after Kiev cut off water and power were full of AK's and potatoes to only give to people who swore allegiance to the great midget bear. You are fucking dumb, Cory.

Again, you need perspective and are talking about a complex situation you know nothing about. It's part of the grand Eurasian agenda to make Russia a superpower gains and re-align the worlds politics. The only reason he has to intervene in Ukraine is because things didn't go his way when it looked like Ukraine was about to accept the customs and trade union.

Are you just hearing about the maidan snipers or something?

http://rt.com/news/195004-ukraine-maidan-sniper-investigation/

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/10/us-ukraine-killings-probe-special-report-idUSKCN0HZ0UH20141010?irpc=932

http://rt.com/news/ashton-maidan-snipers-estonia-946/
http://rt.com/news/estonia-confirm-leaked-tape-970/

inb4rt=russki shill even though the audio tape is right there

All you sources say is that the people in the tape suspected that the people firing the rounds were firing at people on both sides and that "somebody should investigate". All they said is that is "could be somebody" from the new coalition. Who these people are, we don't know. There is no evidence to pin this on the government itself.

C.) The revolution happened because the incumbent President campaigned on closer relations to the EU and then turned coat at the last second and wanted to accept a customs union and closer ties with Russia.

your citation: CNN or some other joke of a publication

Translation: No matter how credible the sources I cite you will just deny it and go back to your closed loop of conspricary blogs an RT.

Literally (proper use) everything you've typed has been what a 45 year old housewife would glean from watching fox news for an hour. You've done absolutely no research of your own and it definitely shows, kid.

Trade Fox News (which I can't fucking stand, btw) with RT and your looking in a mirror.

Everyone knew which way Yanokovich was going to go for a while, and no one could blame him for it. Turning to the EU is a serious mistake by all accounts (You have no idea what that deal even entailed do you?)

This is a matter of opinion. So I'm guessing you admit that Yanokovich turned coat on his promises?

Sure, he was corrupt but probably no less so than every other Oligarch running the country. The EU/West pumped money into the protest movement, funding it and serving up propaganda on a hot plate. When they realized some faggots lighting candles in a square wasn't going to work, the people who wanted EU membership (which Ukraine doesn't even technically have) funded some snipers to make martyrs out of protestors and police alike to justify violence and give the movement more of an urgency, which was ultimately the movements success.

Again, you can't prove this.

None of the Maidan protestors had any idea what the EU deal entailed and if they did, they likely wouldn't have supported it, it just seemed like "something different."

 

Pure conjecture on your part, of course. But I'm sure you have some kind of psychic connection to them and can read their minds.

The orange revolution was about Oligarchs and now the Oligarchs are firmly back in power and now its about something else and less important for ensuring a positive future for western Ukraine. Ukraine is a shithole, people just want something different.

 

Yes, a more open country with greater ties to secular, modern, developed Europe. Why the fuck would they want to be part of a reactionary backwards Russian shithole?

Crimea wanted to become part of Russia because they haven't gotten fuck all (wait, there's no war going on in Crimea, why did Ukraine immediately sever all ties with it?) since the fall of the Soviet Union, so they wanted back in with Russia, where they always should have been.

 

The reason they are fighting in Eastern Ukraine is because they had to draw the line on Russian expansionism somewhere. They probably realized that Crimea was a lost cause. They have gotten "fuck all" from Russia and it's not getting any better. Fail.

Nobody cares less about the Ukrainian people than the west. The EU doesn't see it as anything more than "Europes breadbasket" (their words) and Merkel sees how Putins brand of Russian nationalism is at odds with the EU's welfare state. Basically, a socioeconomic issue became a "omg Russia!" one because Oligarchs were placed firmly back in power .

I'm pretty sure China, India, and basically everyone else cares less then the West. What you said is largley conjecture and has no bearing on the conversation.

western idiots like you are too stupid to see it for what it actually is

My irony meter is exploding.

 

This is so fucking facepalm worthy I'm not even going to address it, just quoting it so you re-read it and face palm yourself into self help book or something. This is one of the dumbest paragraphs I've ever read about anything to do with politics. It wouldn't even fly on /pol/

Because you can't.

So are you a  stupid clueless kid or a lying shill? If you think an illegal coup followed by an illegal government brought on by identity and ideological issues would have no effect on his largest voting bloc who only wanted to declare autonomy (during a time when there was no legal government) because some FSB agents told them to I'm sorry, your IQ is literally (!) dead. Objectively, you're pretty dumb Cory.

Yeah, I'm sure the pro-Russian uprisings just came out of nowhere conveniently timed for Russia to undermine the Ukrainians after the realized their Eurasian Union proposal wasn't gonna fly. Moron.

inb4shillsbargain

Actually, the Shills Bargain was in the paragraph above this. So too late.

I could literally get a peer reviewed article published on the conflict and you just spew cold war propaganda because you're dumb enough to think western propaganda holds weight.

No you couldn't.

Why are you so caustic and angry? That doesn't go well with stupidity you know. It's not good for you.