Author Topic: Need help...  (Read 1239 times)

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Offline Chiefchicken

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Need help...
« on: November 06, 2014, 03:04:12 am »
So I'm looking into programming, coding and all that good shit, i would greatly appreciate any info or links that can get me headed in the right direction. I'm a beginner more or less. any advice is more than welcome.

Offline Chiefchicken

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2014, 03:05:39 am »
Already googled it many times im just having a hard time finding anything that lays out the basic knowledge the advanced stuff would come later

Offline Arnox

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2014, 03:21:16 am »
Well first, do you have any idea what language you'd like to start learning first.

I'd recommend Python as you can do a whole truckload of stuff with it but it's very user-friendly and rather easy to learn. Some schools like to start their students out with Java but it encourages bad programming habits and is just generally a rather sloppy language. (I know at least one of my friends who's a programmer has a huge disdain for it.)

If you'd like to get right into it though then I would go with C++.


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Offline Umbrella Corp

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2014, 03:24:13 am »
Yeah like what do you want to do?  Do you know HTML?  CSS? Those are the basics of web design.
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Offline Chiefchicken

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2014, 03:26:45 am »
C++ and right now im using visual studio but have no idea what im doing lol im not too focused on web page design at the moment mainly applications/ programs

Offline Chiefchicken

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2014, 03:30:09 am »


I'd recommend Python
Read a bit about python heard its very simplistic and easy to use... Java probably wouldnt be too relevant at the moment ive read that c++ is the way to go for apps and programs


Offline aldra

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2014, 05:04:18 am »
C++ is not the best language to start with. it's a practical language for a lot of things, but it's difficult to learn if you don't understand the basics of programming and the object-oriented model.

Java is similar to C++, with a lot of the heavy-lifting done through macros and libraries automatically, so you don't so much need to manage low-level things like variable sizes and memory allocation. it's also gay as fuck.

Python's a good choice because it forces you to format your code in a readable way, is straightforward and logical, and like Java, automatically manages a lot of the low-level processes you'd have to take care of in other languages. the forced whitespace formatting is why I don't use it though; if I want to put my entire program on a single line I should fucking be able to. that and I'm not a big fan of interpreted languages in general.

Perl's another one that's not too hard to get into - if you know a fair bit of Lunix, a lot of that will carry over to Perl. Perl kind of takes the opposite tact to Python - instead of giving you rigid constraints, it literally does not  give a fuck how you code and there are unlimited ways to accomplish anything. if you're new to programming, this could be a good or bad thing.

if you're interested in web development, learn html and css first. they're not programming languages, they're markup languages that determine how a site looks and is laid out. once you're comfortable with that, move onto JavaScript to get a basic feel for web programming. you can try the JQuery library if you crave cocks.

eventually, if you stick with web development, you'll want to learn a server-side language. my favourite is PHP, but there are plenty others to choose from - Ruby's another popular language, and ASP/X is microsoft's ss language, if you're a particularly bad person.

Offline Chiefchicken

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 01:26:11 pm »
Thanks for the help and info guys its definitely appreciated... Anyone know of any good ebooks or the like i could hrmmm "obtain" to give me a bit of basic info, I've looked many times and am only finding stuff thats a bit past my current level of comprehension. I'm talking like true beginner stuff? I think I'm going to look into python for the time being, being that i havent played around with nix too much. Again the helps appreciated and thanks for the kick in the right direction

Offline Lanny

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2014, 07:41:47 pm »
I have some pasta I wrote a while ago about intro materials for people learning python, I don't know why I'm bothering to mention that, maybe I don't want it to seem like I'm trying to hard? W/e, here it is:

A while ago I was asked to recommend an introductory text for Python for a non-programmer and ended up in an argument with another dude about what were mandatory topics and which up to date materials covered them best. Since then I've talked to a fair number of people learning Python as a first language and what they were using to do it, the present state of things is a lot different (and I would argue better) than when I was learning the language. At present it seems the three most popular choices are Shaw's Learn Python the Hard Way, Pilgrim's Dive into Python, and the codecademy python interactive tutorial thing. Of those three I think Dive into Python is far and away the best, both by inspection and empirically (although based, admittedly, upon a small sample).

Shaw's book is the easiest to pick apart. It doesn't really teach python, it teaches you how to be a dogmatic C apologist who happens to be writing code in python. Most of the idiom and elegance of the language is sacrificed to Shaw's technical religion inherited from an older era. Just read the chapter where he covers inheritance, he spends more time trying to sell you on his inheritance-is-bad (mind, he's literally talking about all classical inheritance here, not just multiple inheritance). His didactic style does have something going for it however, which is accessibility. A lot of people, somewhat ironically, find the Hard Way to actually be one of the easiest introductions there is. Few people get stuck at any point, and that's not simply due to omissions of difficult subjects, Shaw seems to have an actual talent for explaining difficult subjects to novices.

The codecademy thing is harder to compare with the book format. People seem to like it but it never gets to anything very advanced. I'm not personally convinced that the format is really conducive to useful learning, retyping stuff in the sidebar seems like a recipe for magical thinking, and this is what I've found in people who count codecademy as their only/primary learning material. I saw Shaw give a talk once about how CS education can be too focused on concepts and not sufficiently focused on the mechanic of programming. I actually thought that was a reasonable claim, but codecademy goes in the opposite direction. Maybe in tandem with a little more heady material it makes sense, but as it stands it seems better for memorizing syntax than learning a language.

Dive Into Python is the popular offering that I'm going to champion. As the name suggests there's a focus on example based learning and writing code. The early chapters really leverage python's REPL well which is one of its greatest strengths as a learning language, there's a lot of encouragement to experiment with concepts due to the format. Some people have called the book rushed. I don't agree, but I do think it guns to get readers out of the toy-program zone pretty fast, the 8th chapter covers pulling data from the internet and HTML parsing. It also gives fair coverage of OOP (considering the language) pretty early on. In my experience Dive gives the most idiomatic introduction to the language and people who count it among their learning materials tend to fit best within the Python community (i.e. they're not like Shawites who are afraid of an object in an OOP language).

There's one final book which impressed me on the strength of the couple of chapters I've read out of it, which is Downey's Think Python. I've never actually met anyone who used this book to learn the language but the subjects covered in the TOC look impressive. It gives the most computer science coverage I've seen in an intro text (the subtitle is "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist"), recursion is covered early, mutability and immutability isn't glossed over for ease of explanation and it isn't afraid of OOP, even if it does delay coverage until late in the book. I don't know how beginners would take to it, I suspect there might be too much information too fast to be a first programming book. But if that's not the case, or if it was and someone white knuckled through it, then I think the actual material there, potential pedagogical issues aside, is better than any other Python book I'm aware of.

Offline Not An Alt

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2014, 09:55:21 am »
I prefer c++ over python but as a starting language python is probably easier to learn (and is not as crippled as java is)


for python:
Downey's Think Python:
http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/python/english2e/index.html

and

http://www.diveintopython.net/


for c++:
http://101.lv/learn/C++/

the book is massivley lacking but it's good for beginners.
If you are more familiar with the language I would recommend the books

c++ primer
http://dl.e-book-free.com/2013/07/c_primer_5th_edition.pdf

thinking in c++
http://www.lib.ru.ac.th/download/e-books/TIC2Vone.pdf

Offline Chiefchicken

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2014, 10:34:12 am »
Much appreciated everybody ill let ya know how it works out

Offline Lanny

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2014, 05:15:24 pm »
Hey guys, why doesn't C++ have garbage collection by default? Because its features are already a collection of garbage

Offline fanglekai

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2014, 05:40:03 pm »
Definitely get some Fortran95

Offline Σ

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 05:59:43 pm »
I would say start with the ebook "python the hard way" contrary to the title its one of the best ways of getting an in depth programming intro and end up with knowing just about everything you need to really get started.
tl;dr: idealism will not un-rape you.

Offline Lanny

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Re: Need help...
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 06:14:14 pm »
I would say start with the ebook "python the hard way" contrary to the title its one of the best ways of getting an in depth programming intro and end up with knowing just about everything you need to really get started.

Have you read it? I made some criticisms of it above, I wonder if you have a response. Honestly I don't think it's a terribly good text, as it goes. It doesn't cover a whole lot of material and there's some things he tries to push on students that just don't make a lot of sense.