its shit like this...

[MoaningLisa]

...that make people think Fords are terrible.

and they are.

inferior design, and inferior build quality.

its not like its a bad design that works well (*cough* Audi *cough*) its a bad design that fails.

I was at the auto parts store getting some oil Sunday night, and I met this family driving from the coast to Dallas (7 hours in, 4 to go) in a 2004 Ford Explorer with a 4 liter V6, that was overheating. the oil wasn't chocolate milk, and they had already removed the thermostat, and it was still going nuclear as soon as you started it...they didn't have any tools for lease at the auto parts store, and none of the shops in town were open, and none of the mobile mechanics were picking up.

so they were pretty much doomed to stay the night in this shithole little town.

anyways, I pull the water pump off, and it failed in the most "Ford" way EVER.

Spoiler

the impeller is press-fit on the drive shaft, no woodruff key or notch, just stamped on the shaft. with 60k on it, the impeller broke loose from the input shaft, and the impeller started digging into the pump casing, sending debris through the engine.

other notes-
-there were 12 8mm bolts holding the pump on. luckily none stripped or snapped, but they were definitely wimpy to hold a water pump on
-the electronic fan clutch is pointless and prone to failure. there is nothing wrong with a regular one.
-there is no point to mount the fan on the water pump input shaft other than making it so you need a special tool, it could be bolted to the pulley like on *other* american brands
-plastic intake manifold, plastic thermostat housing, plastic radiator, plastic fan, plastic valve covers, plastic bumper...
-this vehicle was involved in a front end wreck at one point, anyone who's worked on a car that's been hit knows the damage is never 100% again. some of the complications, especially the electric fan clutch, could be a result of the wreck. still a stupid design, but may have been less problematic.

[Arnox]

lol Wow, I see.

How about the nicer Ford's though? Like the Mustangs?

[MoaningLisa]

if it has a mod motor, it uses the same parts.

I have been inside several modular V8s, and the story was always the same. borderline sludge bomb, failed head gasket, hydrolocked at least 2 cylinders, rod exited block.

they also use plastic in the timing chain tensioners.

I'm not saying they are bad, I'm just saying I'd never own one after looking at how ford does it VS the competition.

I could go on a huge rant about the fine engineering points between LS series motors VS mod motors, but I'm not here to give my opinion, just state the facts.

[MoaningLisa]

Had to do a surprise water pump on a Dodge Durango last night.

360 (5.9) V8, same basic small block mopar design used since 1954

this was the pump the car left the factory with in 2000, and has been happily pumping water for the last 205k miles

the seal between the block and the pump failed.

notice where Ford used several 8mm bolts, dodge uses seven 9/16 (much larger, stronger)

(dodge top, ford bottom)


the dodge pump uses a stamped steel impeller instead of a machined piece like the Ford. the shaft is grooved, and the impeller is press fit.



front view of both...better shows the clusterfuck of 12 small bolts on the ford VS the 7 on the dodge.



other notes-
we had to move the pulley over on the Ford, but the new dodge pump came with a pulley.

there was a coolant hardline that came from the heater core to the dodge pump, that we had to force out, replace an O-ring, and hammer into the new pump.

one bolt on the pump was behind the harmonic balancer, but had an indention for a hex key to get it out. we got it with a box end wrench.

we did not need a fan-clutch removal tool on the dodge.

we did have to remove the fan shroud, but only 2 10mm bolts held it on. the shroud is also the coolant overflow reservoir and the windshield washer fluid reservoir, it made a mess removing it.

there was a hose running from the thermostat housing to the pump that went through the valley, and was difficult to remove/re-install. if we would have broken it, the entire front drive system would have had to come off...luckily it didn't.

tl;dr-dodge has a simpler design that lasted almost 4x as long as the ford, but in the end everything fails. they were roughly similar in time (not difficulty, but time) to replace. the dodge was much easier.

[Infinityshock]

ford is shit for engineering but...id rather have a larger number of smaller fasteners than a smaller number of larger fasteners