Quote from: Satyr on November 20, 2014, 06:48:20 am

"Think of all the pain they have to endure, just to appease a meaningless entity". Wouldn't you agree, Zek? I'd say that's why religion's fucked.

Religious people tend to be happier than the non-religious.  This is likely due to the social and community aspects of religion, but yeah.

Quote from: Flowerz on November 20, 2014, 02:42:27 am

... Look up some bacterias or parasites that are resilient to the elements...

Wouldn't they be in the human waste water as well?

Quote from: Flowerz on November 20, 2014, 02:23:30 am

Quote from: -SpectraL on November 20, 2014, 02:20:50 am

Quote from: Flowerz on November 20, 2014, 12:16:28 am

Quote from: -SpectraL on November 19, 2014, 08:58:08 pm

What if something goes wrong with the filtration system and no one discovers it before consumption of waste water occurs?

The exact same thing that would happen if the current filtration systems and sanitation methods fail. People would get sick.

This is different, though. This is waste water.. human excrement, blood, piss, saliva, sweat.. everything. There's a big difference between getting sick and getting a terminal or lifelong virus. If they don't filtrate HIV and Hepatitis out of the water, such when an "accident" occurs, and you drink it, guess what? You now have HIV and Hepatitis.

Yeah, accept in actuality those viruses don't survive outside of the human body nearly long enough to be carried through a sewage refinement system, all filter functionality aside.

"nearly long enough"

You're telling me that if I drank a few flakes from a fresh chunk of shit of a person with Hepatitis the day after the guy shit, I wouldn't get the disease?

Quote from: Flowerz on November 19, 2014, 11:52:00 pm

Again, you are fundamentally confused about basic terms and concepts and have no idea what you are talking about.

"These conversations tend to start off on the wrong foot because people see religious belief and rationality as being at odds."

...They are.

You then proceed to try and defend this point by painting religion as philosophy and then defending philosophy . Religion is not the same thing as philosophy.

Religion is completely false, retarded, and insane. Science is the study of nature using observation and experiments. Philosophy is essentially the same thing, but without any physical experiments. "For what purpose does life exist?" is philosophy, not religion. You seem confused as to the actual definition of the words you are trying (failing) to argue about. Religions use philosophy to manipulate stupid people and make them believe something that has no evidence to support it is in fact a concrete fact. The abomination that is religion was created as a result of ancient humans failing at philosophy and then abusing the concepts to manipulate people. So yes, religion and rationality are directly at odds with each other, if you disagree, you do not understand one or both of the terms.

Philosophy isn't exclusive to the "mythos" side of things.  This shouldn't even need to be said, considering that "logic" is a subset of philosophy.  Philosophy of religion is another, and a very important aspect of the larger religion thing.  Religion is like sets of communally shared beliefs and practices based around religious philosophical thought.  I'm not sure how you're confusing philosophy, mythos, and religion; but you are.

To be fair, a lot of people these days interpret their chosen religions literally.  That sort of thing, to me, makes very little sense.  But I consider myself to be religious, and have found a lot of meaning in various religious teachings and practices when viewed through the lens of mythos.  Science is scrutinized and understood, while religion is explored faithfully and experienced.  Does this not make sense?

These conversations tend to start off on the wrong foot because people see religious belief and rationality as being at odds.  They're not; they simply exist in entirely different realms of thought and experience.  Of course religion isn't going to stand up to science in a debate based on logic and empirical evidence.  Religion is irrational and subjective, though in this context those words are not synonymous with "false".  They are different methods of seeking specific types of truths, and neither is more important than the other.  This is why I take issue with certain Christian beliefs as well, like those "Christian scientists" saying that the earth is 6,000 years old.  That's religious thought making a failed attempt at existing in rational terms, whereas what you're doing is trying to force rationality onto the ineffable and immeasurable experiences of spirituality.  Rationality and spirituality.  Logic and myth.  Science and religion.  The ancient Greeks of course referred to these as logos and mythos, respectfully.

The kinds of questions we explore in each of these methods of obtaining knowledge and wisdom are different from one another.  Science may ask, "How did life come into existence?" while spirituality may wonder, "For what purpose does life exist?"

Again, it is a mistake for religion to proclaim that their truths are scientifically true.  In saying that "Adam was created of mud and stone," a creation myth is not meaning that's what literally happened.  Myths are written in the language of symbolism, metaphor, exaggeration and deep emotion.  To interpret them in the realm of reason misses the point entirely.

I've been watching some interesting Dawkins stuff on youtube today, and something that really struck me was that at one point he said that wondering about the purpose of existence is simply an invalid question.  He likened it to being ridiculously curious about the color of jealousy.  And he's totally right, within the confines of rational thought there is absolutely no reason to ask such questions.  Moving out of that place though, we find that jealousy is green and purpose can be an unexplainable religious experience.

Quote from: Slave of the Beast on November 19, 2014, 08:49:29 am

*Waits for Zek to derail alter the natural flow of the thread with personal statements.*

Quote from: Flowerz on November 19, 2014, 01:17:58 am

Mean spirited? How so? If you have the gall to insist your bullshit religion is real you best have the fucking hall to tolerate other peoples religions, or their making fun of yours.

How is it mean spirited?  They're mocking real religions, and the people that wear head coverings that have actual religious significance.  I went to high school with a Christian girl who always wore head coverings, and sometimes people said really hurtful things to her for it.  Religious tolerance is something all societies should strive for, and this comes across petty and mean- counterproductive, to say the least.

Quote from: Flowerz on November 19, 2014, 01:17:58 am

Ok got it. Do you support complete and total anarchy? No? Well then your statement of "a person secure in their own beliefs shouldn't feel a need to make fun of others for what they believe." is complete and total horse shit. You are objectively saying that so long as you are content with your own world view, you shouldn't care what anyone else does or do anything to inhibit them from doing it.

What do you think about people that believe trannys should be shot on general principle? Do you care? How about people who molest children? I mean you're secure, who gives a shit what they do, right? What about serial killing cannibals? Do they deserve to be judged?

Are you really comparing peaceful religious practice to murder and rape?  Obviously the "live and let live" thing has limitations.  You could have at least brought up some real issues, like religious groups wanting to tear down the division between church and state.

Quote from: Flowerz on November 19, 2014, 01:17:58 am

When you live in a society, you judge other people and their beliefs. In this case, sane citizens have every right to criticize the fact that the government grants special rights to fucking mentally insane people. Its a slippery slope. In my country, sikh boys are allowed to bring fucking swords to their grade schools. Where the fuck is the line drawn exactly?

Religious people aren't mentally ill.  That's kind of a ridiculous claim.

Are the swords real?  Read somewhere that they aren't even sharp these days, and are always pinned firmly to their clothing.  I'd say the line is drawn at the point the rights of others are threatened.  It's okay for you to believe and practice what you will, so long as I'm not forced into doing anything I don't want to do.  The christian folk here that were trying to teach creationism in schools was a perfect example of religious expression crossing the line.

Quote from: Flowerz on November 19, 2014, 01:17:58 am

If you object to people criticizing aspects of society move the fuck into the middle of forest and eat squirrels and bark in peaceful solitude, or better yet, just shut the fuck up about shit you clearly have no comprehension of. If aspects of society were not analyzed and criticized we would still be a bunch of wandering fucking barbarians and your face would have been eaten by some alpha caveman a long time ago.

You're free to criticize whatever you want, but so am I.  And you seem kinda unreasonable and mean