Quote from: FON on November 12, 2014, 11:59:54 am

Did you mean "the source of indeterminism is non-physical"? I'm not quite sure I follow this part. Thought I did but smoked a cone and read it again, now I don't.

So indeterminism is when something behaves in a way that isn't caused by the past. So like whether a radioactive element has decayed or not, quantum mechanics predicts a probabilistic timeline for its decay but until we observe it somehow, it's said to be in a super state. When we observe it, it takes on either the decayed or non-decayed state. If we accept an indeterministic interpretation of quantum mechanics (not all are) then we're also committed to saying which state it takes on is not dependent on the past beyond some probability distribution. Like if we knew absolutely everything about the universe now, we still couldn't say for certain which state a decaying element will be the next time we observe it.

But when observation happens and a concrete state is realized is the only juncture where the future can be changed, because everything else is deterministic (this is actually a tautology, put differently "all things which are not indeterministic are deterministic"). So what is it that decides which state is realized? I don't know, I'm not a quantum physicist, maybe the question is malformed. But one thing we can say isn't the answer with certainty (based on our assumption of indeterminism) is anything in the past (the physical world). If the state a decaying atom is in depends on something I did then the world is deterministic, if it doesn't then I can't have any effect on it. Thus indeterminism gives us no more of a possibility of free will than determinism does.

I backpacked the US for quite a few months while I was on the run, 3 pairs of clothes in the bag plus what I had on, a laptop, some random shit and about 5 grand, started around philly, made my way through every state south to Florida then across to Arizona, then back up through the Midwest it was fucking awesome, I was couch surfing I guess you could say, free pussy and housing lol fuck yeah... my advice; have a good time man backpacking is the shit n I definitely want to do it again... free piece of advice never keep all your cash in one place I know your not in mexico but its a good precautionary measure (I.e. sock, multiple pockets etc.) anywhere... a nice little knife is never a bad idea either

Quote from: Montane on October 23, 2014, 12:56:35 pm

Quote from: constantinople on October 23, 2014, 12:54:25 pm

Since there is no unequivocal definition of life, the current understanding is descriptive. Life is considered a characteristic of something that exhibits all or most of the following traits:[36][39][40]
Homeostasis: Regulation of the internal environment to maintain a constant state; for example, electrolyte concentration or sweating to reduce temperature.
Organization: Being structurally composed of one or more cells — the basic units of life.
Metabolism: Transformation of energy by converting chemicals and energy into cellular components (anabolism) and decomposing organic matter (catabolism). Living things require energy to maintain internal organization (homeostasis) and to produce the other phenomena associated with life.,[36]
Growth: Maintenance of a higher rate of anabolism than catabolism. A growing organism increases in size in all of its parts, rather than simply accumulating matter.
Adaptation: The ability to change over time in response to the environment. This ability is fundamental to the process of evolution and is determined by the organism's heredity, diet, and external factors.
Response to stimuli: A response can take many forms, from the contraction of a unicellular organism to external chemicals, to complex reactions involving all the senses of multicellular organisms. A response is often expressed by motion; for example, the leaves of a plant turning toward the sun (phototropism), and chemotaxis.
Reproduction: The ability to produce new individual organisms, either asexually from a single parent organism, or sexually from two parent organisms.[41][42] or "with an error rate below the sustainability threshold."[42]




So, now that we have established that parameters for what constitutes a living thing, do any of these apply to the stimulus of "reality".

Reality is static. Changes in the perception of reality are just that, a change in the viewers perception, not in reality. A pair of blue scissors will ALWAYS be blue, based on the science of reflected and absorbed light of various wavelengths.  Any other color perceived by a viewer signifies a change in their processing of the stimulus, not a change in the stimulus itself.

1. Homeostasis - no. reality does not have any control over itself, therefore it cannot have homeostasis. it does not seek to maintain any sort of biological balance of function.

2. Organization. Nope. It is not composed of cells, in fact, it has no concrete composition.

3. Metabolism.  Reality does not metabolize or create energy.

4. Growth. reality is static. it doesn't grow or shrink, only our perception of it and our awareness of it's individual components.

5.


I could go on to do all 7, but there's no point. If it fails to meet the criteria for one it fails them all. 


Reality is not alive. /thread.

I stated all this many posts ago and we have since moved on to discussing the relationship between ourselves, our minds, the universe, reality, and energy.

I hope you have some master's level or better Chemists and Physicists to help chime in on this discussion or we will be chasing our tails for a long time


Einstein couldn't even get those relationships right man.

PS - Free will doesn't exist. With sophisticated enough mathematics and computation technology you could quantify every factor at work on a person influencing their decision making process and pick their decision before they did. We are all at the mercy of ourselves.