The Sanctuary
Society => Oh the Humanities! => Topic started by: stentor on October 29, 2014, 12:41:42 am
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A more pragmatic and efficient method in terms of cost, corpse disposal, swiftness and secrecy all of course without the burdening barrier of humanity. For the most part the nazis already had an exquisite mode of operation with having gas chambers right under the crematorium but why not just dispose of them all directly by throwing them down a chute into a huge fire pit/sulfuric acid? Instead of using gas why not just give all of whom not selected for labour a cyanide pill and tell them that they're vitamins? I'm not going to doubt the brilliance of the masterminds behind their proposal of The Final Solution because both of the methods I've stated above would be very impractical in some manner or another but for that period in time could there have been a more efficient way?
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Auswitz nazi disneyland
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A more pragmatic and efficient method in terms of cost, corpse disposal, swiftness and secrecy all of course without the burdening barrier of humanity. For the most part the nazis already had an exquisite mode of operation with having gas chambers right under the crematorium but why not just dispose of them all directly by throwing them down a chute into a huge fire pit/sulfuric acid? Instead of using gas why not just give all of whom not selected for labour a cyanide pill and tell them that they're vitamins? I'm not going to doubt the brilliance of the masterminds behind their proposal of The Final Solution because both of the methods I've stated above would be very impractical in some manner or another but for that period in time could there have been a more efficient way?
the reason the methods used in the nazi camps seemed so inefficient and impractical is because jews are a melodramatic people.
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They could have made jello out of their bones and soylent green from the pulp of skin and organs. Would have been 100% efficient AND helped with the rationing.
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The reason it seems inefficient is because the jews didn't think their stories through before they started telling them
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ive read enough about how there are tidbits of info that contradict claims made about the holocaust that make it seem plausible that the holocaust either didnt happen or didnt happen the way its being played out to have happened
mass extermination of niggers:
large container ships with multiple separated cargo holds that seal adequately docked in a port.
each hold filled with niggers and sealed. ship departs port and heads out to sea.
the destination will be an area of the ocean with strong currents within a reasonable distance of the port
during the voyage CO2 levels will build up and niggers will die...and in a relatively humane manner at that
once the destination is reached the cargo holds will be 'dumped' in the same way as a dump truck
the corpses will be consumed and used as nutrients for various ocean-dwelling life forms
rinse and repeat
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ive read enough about how there are tidbits of info that contradict claims made about the holocaust that make it seem plausible that the holocaust either didnt happen or didnt happen the way its being played out to have happened
this, especially elie wiesel's early works...none of which mentioned gas chambers, instead the jews were pushed into flaming ditches
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i read a real (as opposed to some nutjob conspiracy theorist) write-up on actual ovens and chambers used by the nazis and the explanation as to why they could not have been used the way they were described was absolutely accurate. i looked up non-related info about ovens and how allied internment camps were arranged and the info on the anti-holocaust write-up was accurate.
one thing i remember is that allied camps also had chambers set up for delousing...the same as the nazi ones that held jews for delousing. ventilation, plumbing, and gaps in doors would have made sealing the chambers for gas introduction impossible. also, the ovens were the same specifications, size, and design, to cook with...not hold human bodies.
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The Nazi's themselves took elaborate records of how many Jews they executed. They convicted themselves at Nuremberg. All we had to do was show up and present the evidence.
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From a purely objective point or view, humans make good fertilizer. Using a similar 'shower method' a moving wall could push a group of humans into a grinder, revealed once a wall on the opposing side was opened. Alternatively the floor could open one segment at a time. The grinder would be similar to that use to grind up cattle carcasses. The pulped remains could then be used to fertilize crops, once appropriate biohazard controls were put in place.
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The Nazi's themselves took elaborate records of how many Jews they executed. They convicted themselves at Nuremberg. All we had to do was show up and present the evidence.
I, too,trust the jews not to fabricate evidence
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One that maybe succeded?
#LakewoodNewJersey
#Israel
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They basically did the best they could with the technology of the era. Remember that there were a number of false starts before they settled on the gas chamber method. They first went for the most direct method: simply taking people into the woods and gunning them down into mass graves. This proved inefficient because of the time consuming nature of the process, the expenditure of ammunition and manpower and the psychological exhaustion of the SS troops involved. Then they tried using "gas vans" in which a large van would be loaded with people and turned on with a pipe connecting the exhaust to the interior. This of course also proved to be very time consuming and energy intensive process.
Then at the Wannsee Conference the SS and other Party officials came up with the official Final Solution using the mass gas chamber method via specially designed camps to efficiently and rapidly exterminate vast amounts of individuals. As a bonus they could also be used a slave labor locations.
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They basically did the best they could with the technology of the era. Remember that there were a number of false starts before they settled on the gas chamber method. They first went for the most direct method: simply taking people into the woods and gunning them down into mass graves. This proved inefficient because of the time consuming nature of the process, the expenditure of ammunition and manpower and the psychological exhaustion of the SS troops involved. Then they tried using "gas vans" in which a large van would be loaded with people and turned on with a pipe connecting the exhaust to the interior. This of course also proved to be very time consuming and energy intensive process.
Then at the Wannsee Conference the SS and other Party officials came up with the official Final Solution using the mass gas chamber method via specially designed camps to efficiently and rapidly exterminate vast amounts of individuals. As a bonus they could also be used a slave labor locations.
I disagree. For example if you have the stomach for it an enormous amount can be achieved with a lump of wood and a machete. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_Genocide) The Nazis, as Germans are so culturally prone to do, over-engineered the solution to the problem. If the 'industrial' route were insisted upon then I see no reason why my method would a) be technologically infeasible in the 1940's b) be unlikely to provide benefits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_meal) the original process did not.
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Auswitz nazi disneyland
Wasn't that a user on Zok?
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They basically did the best they could with the technology of the era. Remember that there were a number of false starts before they settled on the gas chamber method. They first went for the most direct method: simply taking people into the woods and gunning them down into mass graves. This proved inefficient because of the time consuming nature of the process, the expenditure of ammunition and manpower and the psychological exhaustion of the SS troops involved. Then they tried using "gas vans" in which a large van would be loaded with people and turned on with a pipe connecting the exhaust to the interior. This of course also proved to be very time consuming and energy intensive process.
Then at the Wannsee Conference the SS and other Party officials came up with the official Final Solution using the mass gas chamber method via specially designed camps to efficiently and rapidly exterminate vast amounts of individuals. As a bonus they could also be used a slave labor locations.
This sounds like it was written by a juden
Ammo is cheap. Cheaper than the infrastructure required to move people to so-called death camps, house them, and manage them. It is far cheaper to have them dig a hole for their own grave, empty a few rounds into them, then toss them into the pre-dug hole. The next group of exterminate-ees can fill the hole in before they dig their own
Gas vans. Godamned jews and their idiotic attempts at propaganda. There were no gas vans.
Jews are so stupid they dont even realize it
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If Zyklon B was used in the gas chambers, why was there no methylene blue residue in any of the chambers (except for one)?
Also, why the fuck would the nazis keep such meticulous records of people they thought were lower than reptiles?
Also, the German almanacs of the time showed no significant change in the population, but they could've just not counted the jews
Not saying the holocaust didn't happen, just saying it was blown way out of proportion.
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Of course cory is right on timw with the hebrew retort. That kid is literally a model fucking brainwashed robot
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Theres also a really good documentary by some scientist disproving that jews were killed in them, cant think of the name off the top tho
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Palestinian masters of time-travel.
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Not saying the holocaust didn't happen, just saying it was blown way out of proportion.
^ that
Fucking jews are notorious drama queens and love playing the victim card
Jews wrote the old testament. There is zero archeological evidence showing jews were enslaved by egyptians. As a matter of fact the only evidence of jews in egypt during the specified time frame says they were NOT slaves
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Not saying the holocaust didn't happen, just saying it was blown way out of proportion.
^ that
Fucking jews are notorious drama queens and love playing the victim card
Jews wrote the old testament. There is zero archeological evidence showing jews were enslaved by egyptians. As a matter of fact the only evidence of jews in egypt during the specified time frame says they were NOT slaves
Yeah, as opposed to what Stalin did, the Holocaust was nothing.
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Inb4Stali... Nope. Ivan came too late. For once.
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Ammo is cheap. Cheaper than the infrastructure required to move people to so-called death camps, house them, and manage them. It is far cheaper to have them dig a hole for their own grave, empty a few rounds into them, then toss them into the pre-dug hole. The next group of exterminate-ees can fill the hole in before they dig their own
The thing is the camps are a one-time investment, and can serve a useful purpose for the war effort from slave labor. Also I already went over the physiological effect the Einstanzgruppen method had on SS soldiers in 1941. Note the camp method requires a largely one-time investment in manpower as well.
Gas vans. Godamned jews and their idiotic attempts at propaganda. There were no gas vans.
Try to actually know what you are talking about before spouting your "opinion".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van
Of course cory is right on timw with the hebrew retort. That kid is literally a model fucking brainwashed robot
And you're right on time with a classic Shills Bargain. You just accuse the other person of being a "shill" or "brainwashed" so that you don't have to provide actual logic or evidence to back up your argument. It's an intellectual defense mechanism.
Yeah, as opposed to what Stalin did, the Holocaust was nothing.
This has more to do with circumstance then intent. Stalin does have a higher body count but this is because Hitler lost the war.
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Ammo is cheap. Cheaper than the infrastructure required to move people to so-called death camps, house them, and manage them. It is far cheaper to have them dig a hole for their own grave, empty a few rounds into them, then toss them into the pre-dug hole. The next group of exterminate-ees can fill the hole in before they dig their own
The thing is the camps are a one-time investment, and can serve a useful purpose for the war effort from slave labor. Also I already went over the physiological effect the Einstanzgruppen method had on SS soldiers in 1941. Note the camp method requires a largely one-time investment in manpower as well.
Gas vans. Godamned jews and their idiotic attempts at propaganda. There were no gas vans.
Try to actually know what you are talking about before spouting your "opinion".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van
Of course cory is right on timw with the hebrew retort. That kid is literally a model fucking brainwashed robot
And you're right on time with a classic Shills Bargain. You just accuse the other person of being a "shill" or "brainwashed" so that you don't have to provide actual logic or evidence to back up your argument. It's an intellectual defense mechanism.
Yeah, as opposed to what Stalin did, the Holocaust was nothing.
This has more to do with circumstance then intent. Stalin does have a higher body count but this is because Hitler lost the war.
that would make the purpose of incarcerating jews to use them as slave labor...and not to exterminate them. enslaving someone defeats the purpose of exterminating them
i wouldnt have said anything if i didnt know about it.
post one valid example of a so-called 'gas van' used by germany...either photograph or a verified actual vehicle
ill save you the trouble...there arent any
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that would make the purpose of incarcerating jews to use them as slave labor...and not to exterminate them. enslaving someone defeats the purpose of exterminating them
You can do both at the same time you know. IIRC the phrase was "extermination through labor".
i wouldnt have said anything if i didnt know about it.
post one valid example of a so-called 'gas van' used by germany...either photograph or a verified actual vehicle
ill save you the trouble...there arent any
Look in the article provided.
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during the voyage CO2 levels will build up and niggers will die...and in a relatively humane manner at that
dude how is that humane they would be panicking for a while
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Look in the article provided.
This particular van has not been modified yet as explained by Office of the United States Chief Counsel for Prosecution of Axis Criminality
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I'm surprised they didn't club the majority of them like seals. It's a very economical method of dispatch.
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on gas vans disadvantages...
the drivers could hear the victims' screams, which they found distracting and disturbing.
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good read..,
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html
The application of gas usually is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions now have proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer noticed. Today I shall continue my journey to group B, where I can be reached with further news. "
Signed: Dr. Becker
SS-Untersturmfuehrer "
source: http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/rauff.html
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good read..,
http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html
The application of gas usually is not undertaken correctly. In order to come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My directions now have proved that by correct adjustment of the levers death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer noticed. Today I shall continue my journey to group B, where I can be reached with further news. "
Signed: Dr. Becker
SS-Untersturmfuehrer "
source: http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/rauff.html
so fuckin ruthless
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"He was a rabid anti-semite, and his depraved behaviour plumbed the depths. Chaim Hirszmann witnessed how, when a transport of children and infants arrived at Belzec, they were buried alive in a large pit.
At the height of Aktion Reinhard, Wirth’s brutality became even more pronounced. SS-man Werner Dubois, who served at Belzec and Sobibor, stated:
"Wirth was more than brutal. In my opinion, his brutality was grounded more in his human nature, than as an emanation of his political mentality. He bellowed, screamed and threatened us, and hit members of the German camp garrison in the face. Other than Oberhauser, there was no-one in Belzec who was not afraid of Wirth."
source: http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/wirth.html
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"He was a rabid anti-semite, and his depraved behaviour plumbed the depths. Chaim Hirszmann witnessed how, when a transport of children and infants arrived at Belzec, they were buried alive in a large pit.
At the height of Aktion Reinhard, Wirth’s brutality became even more pronounced. SS-man Werner Dubois, who served at Belzec and Sobibor, stated:
"Wirth was more than brutal. In my opinion, his brutality was grounded more in his human nature, than as an emanation of his political mentality. He bellowed, screamed and threatened us, and hit members of the German camp garrison in the face. Other than Oberhauser, there was no-one in Belzec who was not afraid of Wirth."
source: http://www.deathcamps.org/reinhard/wirth.html
I used to go to book shops and put books like this in the kids section
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during the voyage CO2 levels will build up and niggers will die...and in a relatively humane manner at that
dude how is that humane they would be panicking for a while
because CO2 'poisoning' is painless. it is used by veterinarians to exterminate...urm...put down...animals
i used to use it to kill small furry animals to feed to my snakes
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that would make the purpose of incarcerating jews to use them as slave labor...and not to exterminate them. enslaving someone defeats the purpose of exterminating them
You can do both at the same time you know. IIRC the phrase was "extermination through labor".
i wouldnt have said anything if i didnt know about it.
post one valid example of a so-called 'gas van' used by germany...either photograph or a verified actual vehicle
ill save you the trouble...there arent any
Look in the article provided.
that method obviously turned out to be a failure...assuming that was actually the intention
you obviously didnt read your own sources. go back and read it again until you find the parts that support my statement
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on gas vans disadvantages...
the drivers could hear the victims' screams, which they found distracting and disturbing.
says who. there are sociopaths that find precisely these sounds quite pleasant and erotic
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SAiaEuiDXU
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that method obviously turned out to be a failure...assuming that was actually the intention
you obviously didnt read your own sources. go back and read it again until you find the parts that support my statement
Yes, the gas van method turned out not to be effective like I fucking said to begin with. You said "there were no gas vans", you were wrong, deal with it.
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The RSHA office II D 3a was responsible for construction, employment, drivers and the provision of spare parts for the gas vans. During WW2 two types were used: small versions with about 3.5t payload for about 50 persons (Diamond, Opel Blitz, and Renault) and bigger ones with approximately 5t payload for around 70 victims (Saurer). The wagons had an air-sealed car-body and looked like furniture vans. With a removable tube the exhaust fumes could be led into the car body. A barred lamp could be used to illuminate the interior.
Prior to gassing, the victims were ordered to hand over their valuables. They then had to undress and finally entered the gas vans. The two doors at the back of the wagons were closed, and the tube then locked to the exhaust. To calm down the naked victims a lamp was switched on for some minutes. The driver then started the motor, which ran in neutral gear for about ten minutes. During this time the motor produced enough carbon monoxide to suffocate the victims. As they were so crowded together there was lack of air anyway. When the screaming and pounding had stopped, the driver started the drive to the cremation site. There Jewish men, who would not be permitted to remain alive, were forced to unload the corpses and cremate them.
Sometimes the victims were gassed at the site of their mass grave; e.g. in Stalino where on Easter Monday 1942 200 - 300 Jews were killed in gas vans and their corpses pushed into the shaft of a coal mine.
Gas vans were used on a large scale by the Einsatzgruppen in Byelorussia and the Ukraine. Here thousands of persons, mainly Jews, were killed by the use of these wagons. For example, thousands of Jews from the Minsk Ghetto lost their lives in gas vans which were stationed at the extermination site Maly Trostinec, 12 km southwest of Minsk.
Eberhard von Thadden, a Foreign Office official who succeeded Franz Rademacher as head of the Jewish desk, noted in his diary a visit by representatives of the Italian Fascist Party to Generalkommissar Wilhelm Kube in Minsk on 15 May 1943. Kube showed the visitors a church that was being used as a warehouse. The diary entry continues:
"The Italians asked about the little packages and suitcases that were piled up in the church. Kube explained that this was all that was left of the Jews who had been deported from Minsk. Then he showed them a gas chamber in which he said Jews had been gassed. The Fascists were severely shaken."
At least 152,000 people were gassed by the use of gas vans at the Chelmno extermination camp near Lodz.
source: http://www.deathcamps.org/gas_chambers/gas_chambers_vans.html
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Yeah, as opposed to what Stalin did, the Holocaust was nothing.
This has more to do with circumstance then intent. Stalin does have a higher body count but this is because Hitler lost the war.
IIRC, policy under Stalin directly lead to the mass starvation in Ukraine/the eastern parts of the Russian front. I mean that's how it was so easy for him to maintain his hold on those areas. Everything for the front, and all that.
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IIRC, policy under Stalin directly lead to the mass starvation in Ukraine/the eastern parts of the Russian front. I mean that's how it was so easy for him to maintain his hold on those areas. Everything for the front, and all that.
This is true, but it pales in comparison to what the Nazis intended to do in the East had they won the war. Look up "GeneralPlan Ost".
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IIRC, policy under Stalin directly lead to the mass starvation in Ukraine/the eastern parts of the Russian front. I mean that's how it was so easy for him to maintain his hold on those areas. Everything for the front, and all that.
This is true, but it pales in comparison to what the Nazis intended to do in the East had they won the war. Look up "GeneralPlan Ost".
That's irrelevant due to the circular logic of discussing something that may have happened; 'more people didn't die because he didn't kill them'. Well, no shit, but that's an alternative reality that never occurred so is therefore invalid as a counter-argument.
Besides, fascist-state mass murders in the 20th century (on a scale of 10,000s upwards) were a singular feature of the Nazi regime, in contrast mass murder appears to have been a modus operandi for numerous communist states. I know which system, i.e. fascist or communist, I'd rather take my chances under under.
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They could have made jello out of their bones and soylent green from the pulp of skin and organs. Would have been 100% efficient AND helped with the rationing.
Imagine if Germany had had a volcano with a large pit of lava. I could see a sort inescapable escalator system being used. My god, the potential.
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Jews are the chosen people of God.
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That's irrelevant due to the circular logic of discussing something that may have happened; 'more people didn't die because he didn't kill them'. Well, no shit, but that's an alternative reality that never occurred so is therefore invalid as a counter-argument.
But it does back up my actually point that "Stalin was worse then Hitler" due more to circumstance then intent.
Besides, fascist-state mass murders in the 20th century (on a scale of 10,000s upwards) were a singular feature of the Nazi regime, in contrast mass murder appears to have been a modus operandi for numerous communist states. I know which system, i.e. fascist or communist, I'd rather take my chances under under.
This is true, but who I would rather take my chances under would depend on if I was an ethnic minority.