The Sanctuary
Carnality => Better Living Through Chemistry => Topic started by: oppenheimmer on May 12, 2014, 08:28:48 pm
-
I placed this here cause i wanted to stay away from the actual reaction and look more in to the RV its self i seen some designs most just 2L bottles as most off you know.
so i was thinking off building the perfect one as a little side project and thought id ask the cooks them self's for the specifications off the RV things like?
.Type off pressure archived
. Amount of space need to up the production
with being no cook there the only things i could think off so please if you know more fill me in thanks :)
-
if i can remember correctly from my reading and watching different videos if i recall correctly the amount of pressure that can build and that is needed for said reaction is around 110psi.. also remember when looking into building a RV is take into consideration all chems used in a particular reaction. an example of one being how NaoH reacts with aluminum. so something say like a fire extinguisher would not be a good idea. that and the fact that a modified birch is a very visual reaction. if someone would happen to figure out a way to coat the inside of a fed ex with some type of material this maybe a different story. you may say to yourself not all FEX are aluminum some are steel. well you still have the visual part to take into consideration. They do have an RV called a fisher and porter which is specifically designed for pressure but unless you have the cash to get one they are not really plausible as they can start around a thousand and go up from there.
-
Fire extinguisher is good enough, when you change the basic manometer with precision one. The pressure more than 150 psi is unreached area to me, probably because the condensation take a place, beside depletion of free volume, but all is subjective... About the corosion, electroplating isnt good enough to cover the inner surface and also is fucking hard. Gas bottles is other options, but at all its need to be stainless!!!
-
if i can remember correctly from my reading and watching different videos if i recall correctly the amount of pressure that can build and that is needed for said reaction is around 110psi.. also remember when looking into building a RV is take into consideration all chems used in a particular reaction. an example of one being how NaoH reacts with aluminum. so something say like a fire extinguisher would not be a good idea. that and the fact that a modified birch is a very visual reaction. if someone would happen to figure out a way to coat the inside of a fed ex with some type of material this maybe a different story. you may say to yourself not all FEX are aluminum some are steel. well you still have the visual part to take into consideration. They do have an RV called a fisher and porter which is specifically designed for pressure but unless you have the cash to get one they are not really plausible as they can start around a thousand and go up from there.
The large Fisher-Porter vessel is made of glass and only holds 335ml. The pressure rating is only 7 Bar (101 psi). It is not an option.
-
ok im thinking stainless steel gas tank most likely 316/306 rated at 200 bar (no kill like over kill) with a viewing window down the full length off the tank i assume that most plastics are ok to use, so it would be assembled out 12.7mm (half inch) perspex with a silicone seal
what you guys think?
-
PE have medium resistance to non-polar solvent and good chemical resistantce to sodium hydroxide, PMMA is roughly the same, but i suggest borosilicate glass
-
ok im thinking stainless steel gas tank most likely 316/306 rated at 200 bar (no kill like over kill) with a viewing window down the full length off the tank i assume that most plastics are ok to use, so it would be assembled out 12.7mm (half inch) perspex with a silicone seal
what you guys think?
Bro, if I'm not mistaken the ss bottles use a silicone seal on the caps and they are known to fail. Maybe use just a 316/304ss cylinder and mount a couple of sight glasses on it. Ebay has some pretty cheap sight glasses.
-
Bro, if I'm not mistaken the ss bottles use a silicone seal on the caps and they are known to fail. Maybe use just a 316/304ss cylinder and mount a couple of sight glasses on it. Ebay has some pretty cheap sight glasses.
P,C I was thinking at first about a big gas bottle ones in medium/big fabby, welding shops 300 bar rating, But looking at the whats needed i might look in to some small bottle's on a guys TIG set at work, i think they could be Ally(i don't use these bottles on my plant) there light but rated at 200 bar witch give me the doubt.
As for my general idea of the construction i was going to a standard Esab regulator at the top, witch was fitted to hose that went through a carbon filter but that's an add on, then an hatch or a threaded hole for adding materials and a viewing window.
Anything i missed?
also i have a source on 440 sheet maybe i could assemble from scratch, but that much my cost and that not how i roll 8)
i know you can get carbon fiber ones, you think that could do the job?
-
Just something I was thinking about but pretty much falls into the FEX category is the container on a compressor. I also have seen while at a store walmart a paintball CO2 canister but I didn't really stop to look into it. I just thought I would mention it in case others may be needing an idea. Now something that I have been looking into for various pressure requiring synthesis is a glass such as Vycor along with a PVC out coating for extra safety protection. I'm still noticing that the cons outweigh the pros but have not given up. As I was looking at fisher Porter apparatus' I stumble onto an article which talks about the outer PVC and I'm sorry for not having a reference but in this article it stated the device could withstand 500psi. Having said all that I'm not completely sure if that was pertaining to the fisher porter, or the valve used, or the whole unit. I will have to look into the article again and will post a ref for anyone that maybe interested. Even though the price I imagine would be off the fucking deep end.
-
Just something I was thinking about but pretty much falls into the FEX category is the container on a compressor. I also have seen while at a store walmart a paintball CO2 canister but I didn't really stop to look into it. I just thought I would mention it in case others may be needing an idea. Now something that I have been looking into for various pressure requiring synthesis is a glass such as Vycor along with a PVC out coating for extra safety protection. I'm still noticing that the cons outweigh the pros but have not given up. As I was looking at fisher Porter apparatus' I stumble onto an article which talks about the outer PVC and I'm sorry for not having a reference but in this article it stated the device could withstand 500psi. Having said all that I'm not completely sure if that was pertaining to the fisher porter, or the valve used, or the whole unit. I will have to look into the article again and will post a ref for anyone that maybe interested. Even though the price I imagine would be off the fucking deep end.
This has to be one of the coolest SnB RV's ever. NH3 built this from a SS sample cylinder. Everything is stainless steel. He even has a heat band at the bottom to kick off the reaction. He got the idea after seeing a Fisher Porter bottle. Swim seen his video of the rxn using this from start to finish. Perfect results every time.
(http://i.imgur.com/Kqg3cg9.jpg?1)
NH3's Cold Cook
(http://i.imgur.com/Hrq8y11.jpg)
-
That Rxn vessel is bad ass and all stainless steel? Do you know if it has orings at the threaded parts that screw in or what is used in that regard
-
That Rxn vessel is bad ass and all stainless steel? Do you know if it has orings at the threaded parts that screw in or what is used in that regard
Yes, it is all stainless steel. He don't use o rings. The threads are pipe threads. He just uses Teflon tape on the threads.
-
I guess we need to have something like that in the perfect situation....
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e257/evil_lurker/Picture177.jpg)
-
Just a note...
The rxn can be completed much quicker by achieving high enough RV pressures at a given internal temperature to cause the ammonia gas to condense into ammonia liquid (typically between 110psi - 150psi based on ambient temperature and the heat created by the rxn)...
With that said, the excessive pressure is not actually needed...
I never build more than 40psi - 60psi. At a given press/temp relationship, depending on the solubility of ammonia in a given non polar, the ammonia gas will actually become solvable in the non polar and will react with the li in it's gaseous form to create the desired Li(NH3)4.
Still...the advancements on the RV's can quicken rxn time and reduce failure potential.
Nice thread and great posts!