Entertainment => Moving Pictures => Topic started by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 04:55:22 pm
Title: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 04:55:22 pm
Just watched this documentary on Netflix about a bible camp. Was released in 2006. It was kind of interesting but mostly boring. Guess its purpose was to shine a light on the indoctrination a lot of young kids go through thanks to the evangelical parents, and it tied in the political influence the Christian right commands. There was one part where they brought out a cardboard cutout of President George Bush and a bunch of the kids put their hands on it and prayed. I enjoyed the fact that Ted Haggard played a part in the film. Meth, gay sex, and Jesus :P
What really struck me (and this could be editing) was that there wasn't really much talk about true Christian beliefs in the sermons these kids were given. Like it was all flash and no actual content. Christianity at its core is a beautiful expression of humanity, but from what little we saw of this bible camp they had it boiled down to a few political talking points that they repeated over and over. They'd talk about abortion, global warming, evolution and homosexuality, but completely glossed over the wonderful teachings of peace and understanding. At one point the main lady in charge of the camp said, "Kids these days are different from kids generations before; they're visual and they don't read books, which is why to reach them we have to give all these flashy presentations."
It seemed a little sad to me. Teaching political divisiveness at such a young age and passing it off as Jesus' word. Guess the film was intended to get at me that way though. The reality can't be so bad, right? They must teach about turning cheeks and throwing stones still.
I give the film 3 out of 5 stars. The ominous music set to kids praying was hilarious.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 05:18:29 pm
I went to church camp almost every year growing up. Nothing like that happened ever to me, I always had a pretty good time. It was just like regular camp except every evening there would be a service for an hour and a half. They would have a guy speak, anyone who has gone to church knows the type; the church 'board' or 'elders' or whatever they call it finds a guy that they think will appeal to young people, and he is usually a fucking douche bag. Most of them have soul patches and spiky hair and try to wear trendy clothes but they fail.
The speaker would give a sermon or something that was supposed to appeal to young people, or they would have 'skits' but most of them were about resisting peer pressure and not drinking and driving. Not a lot of emphasis on sex or social issues. 99% of the kids there were fucking dorks who probably are still virgins anyway. This would last 10 or 15 minutes, and then the rest of the time would be music. This was also sort of embarrassing, they would have some of the stupidest cover bands imaginable, and they would change the words to popular songs to make them christian themed. I can't even think of any examples and I don't fucking want to.
Anyway, that is how church camp was for me. Just like regular camp, but with an hour and a half of church board members using younger church members to 'get on the kids level' and 'appeal to the youth' or something.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Ninja on September 24, 2014, 05:18:43 pm
Just watched this documentary on Netflix about a bible camp. Was released in 2006. It was kind of interesting but mostly boring. Guess its purpose was to shine a light on the indoctrination a lot of young kids go through thanks to the evangelical parents, and it tied in the political influence the Christian right commands. There was one part where they brought out a cardboard cutout of President George Bush and a bunch of the kids put their hands on it and prayed. I enjoyed the fact that Ted Haggard played a part in the film. Meth, gay sex, and Jesus :P
What really struck me (and this could be editing) was that there wasn't really much talk about true Christian beliefs in the sermons these kids were given. Like it was all flash and no actual content. Christianity at its core is a beautiful expression of humanity, but from what little we saw of this bible camp they had it boiled down to a few political talking points that they repeated over and over. They'd talk about abortion, global warming, evolution and homosexuality, but completely glossed over the wonderful teachings of peace and understanding. At one point the main lady in charge of the camp said, "Kids these days are different from kids generations before; they're visual and they don't read books, which is why to reach them we have to give all these flashy presentations."
It seemed a little sad to me. Teaching political divisiveness at such a young age and passing it off as Jesus' word. Guess the film was intended to get at me that way though. The reality can't be so bad, right? They must teach about turning cheeks and throwing stones still.
I give the film 3 out of 5 stars. The ominous music set to kids praying was hilarious.
Most Christians are brainwashed Satan worshippers.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 05:23:46 pm
I went to church camp almost every year growing up. Nothing like that happened ever to me, I always had a pretty good time. It was just like regular camp except every evening there would be a service for an hour and a half. They would have a guy speak, anyone who has gone to church knows the type; the church 'board' or 'elders' or whatever they call it finds a guy that they think will appeal to young people, and he is usually a fucking douche bag. Most of them have soul patches and spiky hair and try to wear trendy clothes but they fail.
The speaker would give a sermon or something that was supposed to appeal to young people, or they would have 'skits' but most of them were about resisting peer pressure and not drinking and driving. Not a lot of emphasis on sex or social issues. 99% of the kids there were fucking dorks who probably are still virgins anyway. This would last 10 or 15 minutes, and then the rest of the time would be music. This was also sort of embarrassing, they would have some of the stupidest cover bands imaginable, and they would change the words to popular songs to make them christian themed. I can't even think of any examples and I don't fucking want to.
Anyway, that is how church camp was for me. Just like regular camp, but with an hour and a half of church board members using younger church members to 'get on the kids level' and 'appeal to the youth' or something.
Yeah this is kind of what I figured. I think the people involved with this documentary searched for the most extreme and crazy church organization they could find and ran with it.
Just watched this documentary on Netflix about a bible camp. Was released in 2006. It was kind of interesting but mostly boring. Guess its purpose was to shine a light on the indoctrination a lot of young kids go through thanks to the evangelical parents, and it tied in the political influence the Christian right commands. There was one part where they brought out a cardboard cutout of President George Bush and a bunch of the kids put their hands on it and prayed. I enjoyed the fact that Ted Haggard played a part in the film. Meth, gay sex, and Jesus :P
What really struck me (and this could be editing) was that there wasn't really much talk about true Christian beliefs in the sermons these kids were given. Like it was all flash and no actual content. Christianity at its core is a beautiful expression of humanity, but from what little we saw of this bible camp they had it boiled down to a few political talking points that they repeated over and over. They'd talk about abortion, global warming, evolution and homosexuality, but completely glossed over the wonderful teachings of peace and understanding. At one point the main lady in charge of the camp said, "Kids these days are different from kids generations before; they're visual and they don't read books, which is why to reach them we have to give all these flashy presentations."
It seemed a little sad to me. Teaching political divisiveness at such a young age and passing it off as Jesus' word. Guess the film was intended to get at me that way though. The reality can't be so bad, right? They must teach about turning cheeks and throwing stones still.
I give the film 3 out of 5 stars. The ominous music set to kids praying was hilarious.
Most Christians are brainwashed Satan worshippers.
That's not really fair. I kinda like Christianity, when it's done right.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Ninja on September 24, 2014, 05:25:12 pm
That's not really fair. I kinda like Christianity, when it's done right.
Some 'gnostic' sects believe that what we think of as 'god' is really an imposter called a 'demiurge' who is like, blind and evil and trapped inside a cloud or some shit.
The serpent from Genesis was really not satan, and he was trying to help humanity by telling adam and eve about the tree of knowledge. There was also a tree of life I think.
I don't remember the story off the top of my head but, what ninja said? It's a thing.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Arnox on September 24, 2014, 05:27:47 pm
Well, there have definitely been bad documentatries in the past, that's for sure.
I find the one on 4Chan by Fox News to be the most hilarious one I've seen so far actually.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 05:31:19 pm
That's not really fair. I kinda like Christianity, when it's done right.
Some 'gnostic' sects believe that what we think of as 'god' is really an imposter called a 'demiurge' who is like, blind and evil and trapped inside a cloud or some shit.
The serpent from Genesis was really not satan, and he was trying to help humanity by telling adam and eve about the tree of knowledge. There was also a tree of life I think.
I don't remember the story off the top of my head but, what ninja said? It's a thing.
Pretty fuckin' nifty. I had a philosopher instructor that told us that translating the religious experience of god into language and trying to share it could be considered blasphemy, because we inadvertently corrupt the whole thing along the way. He was some kinda Buddhist though, so it made sense that he would see god as a personal and indescribable experience.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Ninja on September 24, 2014, 05:34:39 pm
Pretty fuckin' nifty. I had a philosopher instructor that told us that translating the religious experience of god into language and trying to share it could be considered blasphemy, because we inadvertently corrupt the whole thing along the way. He was some kinda Buddhist though, so it made sense that he would see god as a personal and indescribable experience.
I had a zoklet thread about a similar subject. I sort of hit a wall philosophically, though, so I haven't made any progress since.
That's not really fair. I kinda like Christianity, when it's done right.
Some 'gnostic' sects believe that what we think of as 'god' is really an imposter called a 'demiurge' who is like, blind and evil and trapped inside a cloud or some shit.
The serpent from Genesis was really not satan, and he was trying to help humanity by telling adam and eve about the tree of knowledge. There was also a tree of life I think.
I don't remember the story off the top of my head but, what ninja said? It's a thing.
I was actually talking more about the fact that most Christian churches are actually corporations of the State and worship the almighty State as their God. And, as we all know, the State does some pretty Evil shit.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 05:44:36 pm
I was actually talking more about the fact that most Christian churches are actually corporations of the State and worship the almighty State as their God. And, as we all know, the State does some pretty Evil shit.
Well, there was a christian sect that believed that at least the old testament god is an imposter and that the serpent was the good guy or something like that.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 05:46:29 pm
But yeah, pretty much what you were getting at in that thread. Except (from my understanding after glancing at the first post) you seem to be saying that genuine experiences with god are not possible.
My feeling on the matter is that we're all aspects of god, living out our existences for the very sake of experience. Kinda like uh... it doesn't matter so much if we corrupt religion or god, because the very fact that corruption can happen is evidence of it being a piece of the greater whole that comprises god. That line separating corruption and purity doesn't actually exist. If that makes sense.
It's all a little macro, though, and hard to place oneself in. Lately I've been trying to focus more on the micro and making religion work in my life.
dunno if any of that made sense.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 05:51:50 pm
we're all aspects of god, living out our existences for the very sake of experience
This book I am reading about ancient people's belief systems describes our existence as like leaves on a tree...we think we are all individuals, and we are, to some degree, but there are stems and branches connecting everything together. When we die, the leaf falls away but the tree remains.
Also, about that thread? Fuck Bradley B for saying he is going to do something for me and then never doing it. I hate that.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 05:52:59 pm
we're all aspects of god, living out our existences for the very sake of experience
This book I am reading about ancient people's belief systems describes our existence as like leaves on a tree...we think we are all individuals, and we are, to some degree, but there are stems and branches connecting everything together. When we die, the leaf falls away but the tree remains.
Also, about that thread? Fuck Bradley B for saying he is going to do something for me and then never doing it. I hate that.
Do you believe that sorta thing?
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Ninja on September 24, 2014, 05:56:21 pm
I believe the aliens dropped us off to mine for gold and they're going to be really pissed when they come back and see what we've done.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 06:04:23 pm
I will tentatively say yes, but only for one reason: That there is another layer of 'us' below our personality and ego. Let's call it the 'autopilot'. When one is awake and active, there is a 'personality' that sort of 'oversees' our consciousness. We will call this 'you'. It is the 'you' that makes you 'you'. Your name, your opinions, preferences, emotions, all part of the whole package.
When you think of 'thinking', you think of how your brain controls your body, and how your mind looks out through your eyes and processes information. And when you are awake and going about your day you are 'thinking'. I mean consciously 'thinking', like with the inner voice and everything.
But have you ever had those times, like lets say when you are driving, and you realize you have 'spaced' it and cannot remember the last minute or so? Even though you may have even sat through red lights and drove perfectly normally? Or sleepwalking. Your motor skills function well enough to walk and move around, but the 'you' part of your brain is not there. Some people even do complex tasks while sleepwalking like getting dressed etc. Anyone ever heard of those people who take too much xanax and drive around and cannot remember it later?
I watch true crime shows alot, and this one guy and his wife were murdered in bed, bashed their skulls in with a crowbar, and the guys brain was destroyed, yet a while after the killer left, he was still alive, and he got out of bed, pouring blood from his cracked skull, and went and got dressed, made breakfast, and got the newspaper from his porch, all in 'autopilot'. Then he dropped dead with the newspaper in his hand in the front hall.
These are forms of trance states, which are illustrative of how what we think of as 'us' is just an overlay over another sentience, one who is somewhat robotic yet still functional. So my best guess is, if there is some 'autopilot' underneath our 'egos', maybe that is a clue or indicator of the 'stem of the tree'
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: unbreakable matter on September 24, 2014, 06:10:28 pm
My moms yoga instructors husband joined the buddhist army that we dont talk about and play dumb about and left her and the kids and went to Syria and Yemen and probly some other places. Im sorry I lied to you before zek I know it reflects poorly on the faith.
Theres a Jew camp in my province thats held in an ironic and hilarious sounding town
Life is funny sometimes.
I know nothing of Jesus camp but it sounds like a scary movie.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 06:10:42 pm
I will tentatively say yes, but only for one reason: That there is another layer of 'us' below our personality and ego. Let's call it the 'autopilot'. When one is awake and active, there is a 'personality' that sort of 'oversees' our consciousness. We will call this 'you'. It is the 'you' that makes you 'you'. Your name, your opinions, preferences, emotions, all part of the whole package.
When you think of 'thinking', you think of how your brain controls your body, and how your mind looks out through your eyes and processes information. And when you are awake and going about your day you are 'thinking'. I mean consciously 'thinking', like with the inner voice and everything.
But have you ever had those times, like lets say when you are driving, and you realize you have 'spaced' it and cannot remember the last minute or so? Even though you may have even sat through red lights and drove perfectly normally? Or sleepwalking. Your motor skills function well enough to walk and move around, but the 'you' part of your brain is not there. Some people even do complex tasks while sleepwalking like getting dressed etc. Anyone ever heard of those people who take too much xanax and drive around and cannot remember it later?
I watch true crime shows alot, and this one guy and his wife were murdered in bed, bashed their skulls in with a crowbar, and the guys brain was destroyed, yet a while after the killer left, he was still alive, and he got out of bed, pouring blood from his cracked skull, and went and got dressed, made breakfast, and got the newspaper from his porch, all in 'autopilot'. Then he dropped dead with the newspaper in his hand in the front hall.
These are forms of trance states, which are illustrative of how what we think of as 'us' is just an overlay over another sentience, one who is somewhat robotic yet still functional. So my best guess is, if there is some 'autopilot' underneath our 'egos', maybe that is a clue or indicator of the 'stem of the tree'
But what you're talking about there is individual learned habit. Wouldn't the tree be better represented as like the collective unconscious? Something deeper than putting on clothes.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Soso0 on September 24, 2014, 06:12:05 pm
Lets gooo JESUS
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 06:12:26 pm
If 'you' is shut off where does 'learning' factor in? Without a 'you' there is no 'habits'. Just mr. and ms. 'autopilot' running off of the circadian clock attached to it.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 06:12:30 pm
My moms yoga instructors husband joined the buddhist army that we dont talk about and play dumb about and left her and the kids and went to Syria and Yemen and probly some other places. Im sorry I lied to you before zek I know it reflects poorly on the faith.
Theres a Jew camp in my province thats held in an ironic and hilarious sounding town
Life is funny sometimes.
I know nothing of Jesus camp but it sounds like a scary movie.
What's the Buddhist Army? I haven't been keeping up with this stuff. Some kinda hateful sect of Buddhism that advocates war?
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 06:14:02 pm
Buddhists will fucking kill muslims any chance they get
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 06:15:21 pm
If 'you' is shut off where does 'learning' factor in? Without a 'you' there is no 'habits'. Just mr. and ms. 'autopilot' running off the circadian clock attached to it.
I guess I see what you're saying. Maybe that sort of thing is some evidence of a tree of life.
What do you think about collective experience and understanding, though? To me that's an infinitely more interesting topic than dead people making breakfast.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 06:18:02 pm
What do you think about collective experience and understanding, though? To me that's an infinitely more interesting topic than dead people making breakfast.
Basically you are asking me what I think of books? Because books and databases are as close to 'collective experience and understanding' as it gets for humans.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: unbreakable matter on September 24, 2014, 06:18:14 pm
Its basically the "pure lands" variation of defense thats applied to the whole world wherever there is strife that deviates from the pure lands perception of what entails peace and heaven on earth. Its "defence forces" but they travel and do humanitarian stuff with military style training. They dont really pick up am AK and get on the front lines but theyre in there in the conflict. I really feel like I shouldnt be talking about this because its kinda hush hush and Im only a lvl 1 and missed level 2 training last friday and saturday.
None of this sounds true
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: unbreakable matter on September 24, 2014, 06:21:27 pm
Buddhists will fucking kill muslims any chance they get
Ya I never heard about them going to Sri Lanka to join the BBM or whatever because theyre tats over there but Im sure that doesnt really make a dif. My city has a lot of muslims and they seem to get along fine and youll see some lebs at the open meditations the few times Ive gone. From what I understand in Sri Lanka its more "assimilate faggots" than any actual hate
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: Ninja on September 24, 2014, 06:43:11 pm
I will tentatively say yes, but only for one reason: That there is another layer of 'us' below our personality and ego. Let's call it the 'autopilot'. When one is awake and active, there is a 'personality' that sort of 'oversees' our consciousness. We will call this 'you'. It is the 'you' that makes you 'you'. Your name, your opinions, preferences, emotions, all part of the whole package.
When you think of 'thinking', you think of how your brain controls your body, and how your mind looks out through your eyes and processes information. And when you are awake and going about your day you are 'thinking'. I mean consciously 'thinking', like with the inner voice and everything.
But have you ever had those times, like lets say when you are driving, and you realize you have 'spaced' it and cannot remember the last minute or so? Even though you may have even sat through red lights and drove perfectly normally? Or sleepwalking. Your motor skills function well enough to walk and move around, but the 'you' part of your brain is not there. Some people even do complex tasks while sleepwalking like getting dressed etc. Anyone ever heard of those people who take too much xanax and drive around and cannot remember it later?
I watch true crime shows alot, and this one guy and his wife were murdered in bed, bashed their skulls in with a crowbar, and the guys brain was destroyed, yet a while after the killer left, he was still alive, and he got out of bed, pouring blood from his cracked skull, and went and got dressed, made breakfast, and got the newspaper from his porch, all in 'autopilot'. Then he dropped dead with the newspaper in his hand in the front hall.
These are forms of trance states, which are illustrative of how what we think of as 'us' is just an overlay over another sentience, one who is somewhat robotic yet still functional. So my best guess is, if there is some 'autopilot' underneath our 'egos', maybe that is a clue or indicator of the 'stem of the tree'
Yeah, when I have to do hours of monotonous, mind-numbing labor, I always space out and go into auto-pilot. If I were not able to do this, I would murder people.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: equanimity on September 24, 2014, 07:24:39 pm
What do you think about collective experience and understanding, though? To me that's an infinitely more interesting topic than dead people making breakfast.
Basically you are asking me what I think of books? Because books and databases are as close to 'collective experience and understanding' as it gets for humans.
Its basically the "pure lands" variation of defense thats applied to the whole world wherever there is strife that deviates from the pure lands perception of what entails peace and heaven on earth. Its "defence forces" but they travel and do humanitarian stuff with military style training. They dont really pick up am AK and get on the front lines but theyre in there in the conflict. I really feel like I shouldnt be talking about this because its kinda hush hush and Im only a lvl 1 and missed level 2 training last friday and saturday.
None of this sounds true
This doesn't make sense to me. You're part of these people and their military organization? Level 1 and 2 makes it sound like Scientology. If they're doing humanitarian work in war zones it sounds like a good cause, but you made it sound violent and mean.
Title: Re: Jesus Camp
Post by: millionsofdeadcats on September 24, 2014, 07:26:33 pm
This doesn't make sense to me. You're part of these people and their military organization? Level 1 and 2 makes it sound like Scientology. If they're doing humanitarian work in war zones it sounds like a good cause, but you made it sound violent and mean.
There are a lot of levels and a hierarchy, it's kinda weird but it's open to anyone and you don't have to follow that path. It's pretty complicated. "Humanitarian work" sums up their involvement the best, lets go with that.