The Sanctuary
Society => Oh the Humanities! => Topic started by: Bigggmann on September 10, 2014, 09:42:06 pm
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Wassup guys. (Finally I make a post on here since zoklet pretty much died)
Anyways, I overheard, and gradually entered into a debate on the legality and philosophy associated with the Confederate flag.
The one woman (Puerto rican/white, 18-20 y/o, middle class) was arguing it was a symbol of racism and ignorance. She said the south often uses the excuse of "going against oppression" to avoid the backlash of looking like bigot racists.
The guy (Hispanic, prob same age, looked lower class but not ghetto lookin), He argued that the MODERN flag was a symbol of refusing oppression, and not a symbol of racism. He said that "If the government banned the flag, it would literally be enciting what the flag stands against, tyranny". He said that even foreign nation's civilians use the flag as a symbol of libertarian, free ideas (this probably needs to be checked if it true).
My belief is that I think the flag stands for exactly what the male said "freedom".
Now I am far from racist, I grew up poor my whole life (until later years of high school I moved to a more better side of town) when I see the flag it doesn't really bother me at all (I'm Slovakian and Croatian AKA white ;))
I understand today, that neo Nazis, KKK, and white supremacists use the flag sometimes as "their" symbol. But if someone uses the special Olympics flag for their anti-gay campaigns, does that mean all special Olympic athletes are against the gays?
LOL, I know that was a stupid analogy, but I did say this in the debate.
"If you take out the topic of slavery and say this:
The north (majority of the country) is pro vegetarian, and they believe it should be illegal for the consumption of animals. Now lets say the government has the same values as the majority and believe the south should shut down their meat plants and become all vegetarian. Should the south have to shut down all their meat plants AND change their beliefs because the government is forcing this new policy on them."
Yes I am not for slavery (personally), I do believe it is a good idea in some aspects though (economically). I can sympathize with the dominantly agricultural south who cant look for non slave workers because of the lack of immigrants to the south (all Europeans immigrate to the north).
The woman argued that all the south would have to do is just pay their slaves.
I said that if slaves were freed, most would move north (like they did initially), or they would start realizing they can argue for higher wages (based on the non availability of other workers).
She said she didn't think they would all leave.
To which I just :facepalm: ed
So what do you guys think?
Should government restrict the sale of confederate flags?
What is the modern meaning of Confederate flags to you?
Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags?
How would you argue being for or against the flags old meaning?
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i think its just another excuse for niggers, spics, and stupid white people to be racist against whites
it comes down to one thing: first amendment
nuff said
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The majority of my family is from the south and I see it as a sign of southern pride.
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i didnt get overly indepth into the article, but i recall reading recently about how commiefornia is trying to ban the confederate flag. all the people that were interviewed for the article had names like 'sanchez', 'gonzalez', or 'tacojunkie'
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The majority of my family is from the south and I see it as a sign of southern pride.
Yeh, but for example.
What is southern pride?
Is it repping where you come from?
Or repping your southern history (outside of civil war)?
Or is it repping the excellent strategies used by minority south against a government forcing uninformed laws upon you?
Or repping white folks :3
i didnt get overly indepth into the article, but i recall reading recently about how commiefornia is trying to ban the confederate flag. all the people that were interviewed for the article had names like 'sanchez', 'gonzalez', or 'tacojunkie'
Yeah, it seems like most racist people in society are the minorities. Or they are privileged white females who don't know anything except for what the media shows them. Or gay males lol.
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The liberals would love to ban the confederate flag, calling it racist, opening the door to ban free speech. The only thing leftists hate more than the rebel flag is the constitution.
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Lincoln didn't free the slaves. He made us all slaves.
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The liberals would love to ban the confederate flag, calling it racist, opening the door to ban free speech. The only thing leftists hate more than the rebel flag is the constitution.
The only things liberals like more then a ban on the confederate flag are gay rights and losing their rights to their "perfect" government
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Yes I am not for slavery (personally), I do believe it is a good idea in some aspects though (economically). I can sympathize with the dominantly agricultural south who cant look for non slave workers because of the lack of immigrants to the south (all Europeans immigrate to the north).
Should government restrict the sale of confederate flags?
What is the modern meaning of Confederate flags to you?
Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags?
How would you argue being for or against the flags old meaning?
Well the civil war was definitely a war of States rights vs Federal Imperialism.
Should government restrict the sale of confederate flags? No.
What is the modern meaning of Confederate flags to you? Nothing.
Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags? Fuck Cali.
How would you argue being for or against the flags old meaning? I am pro free enterprise.
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Anybody who would be the type to hang a rebel flag while living California right now is probably more preoccupied with other various discontents like trying to figure out the reason they chose to live there in the first place.
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Well the civil war was definitely a war of States rights vs Federal Imperialism.
Should government restrict the sale of confederate flags? No.
What is the modern meaning of Confederate flags to you? Nothing.
Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags? Fuck Cali.
How would you argue being for or against the flags old meaning? I am pro free enterprise.
^That
The Confederacy seceded over their commonly held belief that state's rights trumped federal rights; that each state should be free to decide what laws were important to them. Federal agricultural laws would have little to no meaning for northern states because that was the southern state's industry. Likewise, federal wage laws would hold little to no meaning for the south as those states still used a barter system as well as wages for labor. It all came down to southern representatives refusing to accept laws that would seek to alter the industries of the south in favor of northern business. Free slaves would have ended up working in factories that were already moving further and further south for wages that were just enough to be legal. They still would have been slaves only to different masters under the guise of freedom.
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Well the civil war was definitely a war of States rights vs Federal Imperialism.
Should government restrict the sale of confederate flags? No.
What is the modern meaning of Confederate flags to you? Nothing.
Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags? Fuck Cali.
How would you argue being for or against the flags old meaning? I am pro free enterprise.
^That
The Confederacy seceded over their commonly held belief that state's rights trumped federal rights; that each state should be free to decide what laws were important to them. Federal agricultural laws would have little to no meaning for northern states because that was the southern state's industry. Likewise, federal wage laws would hold little to no meaning for the south as those states still used a barter system as well as wages for labor. It all came down to southern representatives refusing to accept laws that would seek to alter the industries of the south in favor of northern business. Free slaves would have ended up working in factories that were already moving further and further south for wages that were just enough to be legal. They still would have been slaves only to different masters under the guise of freedom.
:tup: It's Good to hear!
+1 thanks
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Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags? Fuck Cali.
It's a ban on the state displaying/selling the flag, not individuals. Like public museums couldn't sell confederate flags. You could still buy one from a private business or put one up in front of your house. Let's be honest, the confederate flag is no longer a symbol for states rights. Self described racists have adopted it as their symbol, that's what it means in the public mind. The swastika used to be a buddhist symbol, that doesn't mean it should be OK to have the state chizzel one on the front door of every public institution.
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Do you approve of California's ban on confederate flags? Fuck Cali.
It's a ban on the state displaying/selling the flag, not individuals. Like public museums couldn't sell confederate flags. You could still buy one from a private business or put one up in front of your house. Let's be honest, the confederate flag is no longer a symbol for states rights. Self described racists have adopted it as their symbol, that's what it means in the public mind. The swastika used to be a buddhist symbol, that doesn't mean it should be OK to have the state chizzel one on the front door of every public institution.
The swastika is still a Buddhist/Hindu symbol...
Assemblyman Isadore Hall III, D-Compton, introduced the legislation after his mother discovered the Capitol gift shop sold a replica of Confederate money that contained a picture of the flag, according to the L.A. Times.
Banning history doesn't make it go away, Museums should be allowed to sell history...
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Holocaust was also history, should we be selling nazi flags in WWII museums? I mean honestly I don't care, I have no desire to buy fascist or confederate memorabilia nor would I be offended (but probably surprised) to see it for sale, but to say this is a first amendment issue is silly.
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Holocaust was also history, should we be selling nazi flags in WWII museums? I mean honestly I don't care, I have no desire to buy fascist or confederate memorabilia nor would I be offended (but probably surprised) to see it for sale, but to say this is a first amendment issue is silly.
The jews suffered through the holocaust as much as they did during the time they were enslaved in Egypt. In other words...not a whole lot
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Holocaust was also history, should we be selling nazi flags in WWII museums? I mean honestly I don't care, I have no desire to buy fascist or confederate memorabilia nor would I be offended (but probably surprised) to see it for sale, but to say this is a first amendment issue is silly.
I'd say sell the flags.
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Yup, I hear those concentration camps were just super kush, comfortable, happy places to be. Haha, yeah, those jews, they just managed to trick the silly germans into giving them free food and a place to crash.
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Yup, I hear those concentration camps were just super kush, comfortable, happy places to be. Haha, yeah, those jews, they just managed to trick the silly germans into giving them free food and a place to crash.
There have been lots of concentration camps throughout history, andersonville prison during the civil war is one example. But when it happens to the jews, oy vey! It becomes this whole big thing, with a grandiose name like 'Holocaust' and the world is supposed to feel especially sorry for them. Jews are some whiny ass bitches.
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Yeah, because you know, everyone totally thinks that was morally permissible.
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Yeah, because you know, everyone totally thinks that was morally permissible.
#1 what the fuck are you even talking about
#2 No need to go to extremes, it just makes you look petulant
#3 No one even typed that, so why are you trying to put that idea out there. it is a shitty Alinksy-ite tactic and is underhanded and petty.
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What are YOU talking about? You seem to be complaining about the fact that people think the holocaust was a big deal, and the evidence you offered for that is that other people have been interred/exterminated. It's a non sequitur. Just because some injustices are closer to the front of the public mind than others doesn't make the victims "whiny".
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I was directly commenting on your post where you referred to the jews suffering during the holocaust. I was saying that you, and most jews, make a big fucking deal about it. Bad stuff happened to every group of people at one time or another, get over it.
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No thanks, I'm going to continue to consider the holocaust a big deal. Nice job on being the thought police though.
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No thanks, I'm going to continue to consider the holocaust a big deal. Nice job on being the thought police though.
The problem is when it is considered a bigger deal than say, the holodomor, or other mass killing events. You never hear about those, though....its all 'holocaust this' and 'holocaust that'.
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The problem is when it is considered a bigger deal than say, the holodomor, or other mass killing events. You never hear about those, though....its all 'holocaust this' and 'holocaust that'.
What are YOU talking about? You seem to be complaining about the fact that people think the holocaust was a big deal, and the evidence you offered for that is that other people have been interred/exterminated. It's a non sequitur. Just because some injustices are closer to the front of the public mind than others doesn't make the victims "whiny".
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Just because some injustices are closer to the front of the public mind than others doesn't make the victims "whiny".
Yes, it does
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No thanks, I'm going to continue to consider the holocaust a big deal. Nice job on being the thought police though.
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If I were the thought police, I would rodney king your ass.
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I was directly commenting on your post where you referred to the jews suffering during the holocaust. I was saying that you, and most jews, make a big fucking deal about it. Bad stuff happened to every group of people at one time or another, get over it.
But the real issue in this thread is the Legality of the Confederate Flag not the Holocaust.
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But the real issue in this thread is the Legality of the Confederate Flag not the Holocaust.
Yes, but I will comment on others posts within a thread, even if it does meander a bit off topic. If it bothers you so much, I invite you to kindly go fuck yourself with an eggbeater while furiously spinning the crank.